found this in a Turkish scrapyard

Yes Orko, I was speaking of 67-0272 which is mentioned in the beginning of the topic and which was delivered in 27 Jul 87 and obviously not on the Peace Diamond 1 & 2 Phantoms.

Zwitter – If you do manage to bring her home, try importing her as scrap metal… the last time I looked into it, there was no duty on importing scrap.

AFAIK the F-4 is still the property of the US Goverment and special permission is needed if the THK is to give/sell it to anyone else.

Nope. First two batches of F-4E’s were bought with national budget, while remaining were donated. They were not procured under FMS, F-16’s were. Turkey did not ask any permission when conducting Terminator modernization programme on her fleet of F-4E’s.

AFAIK there is a big junkyard in Konya, but not sure.

AFAIK the F-4 is still the property of the US Goverment and special permission is needed if the THK is to give/sell it to anyone else. The F-16 is another matter however… Any info as to the location of the wrecks and to what actually hapenned?

[QUOTE=J Boyle]The UK was the only Phantom operator to insist on other powerplants (in this case RR Spey 201s at 20,515 lbs of thrust w/reheat vs the GE J-79 that put out 17,900 lbs of thrust in the model that powered the F-4J). While the engines were more powerful the necessary airframe changes led to lower performance. The F-4M had a power loading of 1.3 compared to 1.4 to 1.6 for F-4Js and Es, respectively. Other airframe differences included longer nose gear legs and larger flaps were also fillted along with a folding nose cone.
QUOTE]

Thanks for that. I seem to remember stories of UK Phantoms burning holes in USN carrier decks and assumed it was a different thrust angle of the Speys but, if true, the longer nose undercarraige leg would have played a part.

Roger Smith.

Talking of phantoms, does anyone have any pictures of the example that made it to tigermeet? I whant to model it.

Am I right in thinking there was far more re-design to Anglicise the Phantom for the UK than other marks?

The UK was the only Phantom operator to insist on other powerplants (in this case RR Spey 201s at 20,515 lbs of thrust w/reheat vs the GE J-79 that put out 17,900 lbs of thrust in the model that powered the F-4J). While the engines were more powerful the necessary airframe changes led to lower performance. The F-4M had a power loading of 1.3 compared to 1.4 to 1.6 for F-4Js and Es, respectively. Other airframe differences included longer nose gear legs and larger flaps were also fillted along with a folding nose cone.

McDon-Doug estimated that 40-45% of its value was made in the UK.

That sounds an interesting story. It also sounds just like my attempts at machining.

Remember it is not the prototype Phantom – it is the first of a series of converted Phantoms built for the UK.Bruce

Am I right in thinking there was far more re-design to Anglicise the Phantom for the UK than other marks?

I worked on the brakes for the UK prototype during a spell in the Experimental Dept. when an apprentice at Dunlop in the ’60s. Made a right b*lls-up on a milling machine causing a large diameter “sun”(?) gear to be scrapped!

Roger Smith.

This begs the question, “Do you actually have FGR.2 wings?

Being a practical minded chap, I’d never consider looking for something as impractical as a derelict fighter plane.

Nope, I’m on the look out for something with plenty of space and loading ramp like the derelict fuselage of transport aircraft like a C-130 – or even something as small as CH-46. I don’t want anything with intact wings or even a vertical tail, though.

i like impractical things. i have a phantom fin from a scrapyard propped up in my room. dont ask why. i also have a fair collection of instruments and other odds and sods laying about.

If we had a national preservation policy we would know if the first YF-4M was considered important! but I’m not getting into that again!!

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=763325#post763325

It might be desirable to many collectors, but a benchmark aircraft – I doubt it.

Remember it is not the prototype Phantom – it is the first of a series of converted Phantoms built for the UK.

In this case, the benchmark aircraft, and there is one each preserved at the RAFM, IWM and FAAM, will be those preserved by the national collections, which has been done.

There is one other at Boscombe Down that is currently preserved, plus one or two others.

Whilst I would like to see one or two more Phantoms preserved in the UK, we must remember that we cant save everything!

Bruce

XT852 was the first YF4-M and first flew on 17 February 1967 according to “The Phantom Story”.

This is is the prototype FGR 1 rather than the prototype per se I take it? Is it not covered by some American treaty that says only a national collection can have them?

J man

i would bring it back complete and start looking for wings. at least then if you do get wings you will have something to atach them to.

be a shame for this one to get scrapped.. could it be a benchmark airframe and lottery funding be available if it is the prototype?

Well XT852 is listed on the internal Qinetiq website as surplus and available! Anyone have any contacts with Qinetiq? Maybe GJD have contacts as they’ve scrapped a few Qinetiq aircraft recently? Don’t the BAPC have any contacts? Surely if it is ‘available’ someone must know the right people to speak to!!!!!

Join the queue of people who would like to save the Phantom at West Freugh – more
chance with the Turkish machine I bet!

Zwitter,

You may find it easier, cheaper and involving considerably less red tape to try and ‘rescue’ the UK Phantom prototype in Scotland that is also on a dump in similar condition and is surplus to it’s owners requirements (Qinetiq). Just a thought.

Turkey’s not in the EU yet John, everybody’s still arguing ferociously about it.

Sorry! 😮
With all the talking/arguments/yelling I heard the last time I was in the UK, I thought it was a done deal. Back to the BBC website for me!