four by fours

You can have exactly the same discussion with the same arguments about owning a Porsche or any other car which can go faster than 200 kph…. Its simply not allowed to go that fast, except for some autobahns in Germany. And if you feel the need to drive really fast you can go to a circuit, pay some money and make a few rounds at speed, instead of putting other motorists in danger on the motorway. Just as there is a difference between offroading on an off-road course and the 4×4 idiots who dig up the countryside when they think nobody is looking at them.

Part of the fun in owning such an automobile is knowing that it can do something an Astra can’t. And if someone thinks that’s not a good enough reason: bad luck. It is my money.

Tillerman.

PS I just ordered an Epsom Green Defender 90 Td5 (secondhand) 😀 😀 😀

… questions over the battery pack life and battery pack disposal etc. then the Prius and Lexus hybrids are absolutely not eco friendly

What questions would these be?

Moggy

I just wonder if the people here trying to force the 4×4 owners amongst us to justify our vehicles are the same people who complain bitterly about the nany state and the interference by the EU?

I think we should be told.

Gentlemen,

I strongly advise you to read frankvw’s posting once again. (see above)

I doubt he made it purely for the good of his health, and I assure you that he speaks for all of the General Discussion moderators.

Please bear this in mind.

Thank you

GA

Ok boss ! 😀

Forgive my leprechaun sense of humour !

I was only trying to show his lordship that a smile beats a grimace every time …unless its caused by a case of trapped wind !:diablo:

One of the things I find irritating is claims that vehicles like the Prius and G-Whizz are environmentally friendy, there is no such thing as an environmentally friendly vehicle, only environmentally less damaging ones. And given the carbon footprint of shipping materials around the world, car transporters carrying them from Japan to Europe, questions over the battery pack life and battery pack disposal etc. then the Prius and Lexus hybrids are absolutely not eco friendly, especially when in strictly oil consumption terms they’re worse than a diesel alternative. Another point is that since a huge % of the eco impact of a car is in manufacturing phase then we should be encouraging people to keep cars longer as even though older cars are less efficient and burn more fuel, it’s been shown that the efficiency gains from replacing cars regularly with new ones is nothing like the negative impact of all that extra production environmental impact if they’re well maintained. But no car company wants that as they need to keep new sales up. All of which is a long way from a 4×4 argument, but I guess I’m just saying that although I personally don’t like SUV’s for road use, in eco terms no car user is being helpful to the environment so should stop pretending that SUV drivers are the ones killing the planet.

Yes that seems like a good idea.

There is a time or place for everything, but city centers aint the place for 4×4’s

Living in deepest darkest rural Lincolnshire I do see a need for them.

I would like to ask the 4×4 owers in cities why you feel the need to have them

My personal opinion – from a 4×4 owning perspective..

As an owner of a vehicle which includes the option of having the power delivered to all 4 wheels(should I choose to) I feel the need to comment on this thread.

Why is it that so many people climb on their high horses and shout about a vehicle type based around the number of driven wheels? I have seen debates about a lot of different vehicle types over the years, but the attention drawn to four wheel drive vehicles has, in my humble opinion, got out of hand. It has been driven (excuse the pun) by media attention and bad reporting over recent years. Maybe that is why there are so many mis-informed non 4×4 owners out there who bay for blood at the first hint of yet another “story” targeting owners such as me.

May I explain why I own one perhaps?

I wanted a vehicle that had a larger than average load capacity for one…
I wanted a diesel powered vehicle to eliminate problems I had previously experienced

with the poor ignition performance of petrol engines in damp / cold weather…
I wanted the advantages of four wheel drive in poor road conditions, but not wanting four wheel drive full time for economy obviously (yes quite a lot have selectable four wheel drive you know)
I wanted something built a bit more bulletproof than the average family sized car, that would take any abuse without costing me a fortune in spare parts that were over-priced.
Finally, I wanted to be a ‘wise’ motorist and do my bit to be ‘green’ by using alternative fuels such as vegetable oil which costsme far less to run on than pump fuel…

So I chose my vehicle – which if you really need to know is a little heard of Ssangyong Musso 2.9 ltr with Mercedes power under the bonnet.

Sensible or stupid? Economical or Gas Guzzler? Chelsea Tractor or Useful and

adaptable?

Well I get an average 30mpg running on vegetable oil at half the price of pump fuel, with zero emissions too, and I use my vehicle nowadays all year round with some excursions off road purely for fun legally.
Oh and I can (and have done so twice now) happily move house using the huge load capacity of this vehicle without resorting to additional expense of a hired removal van etc…

So I’m happy with my choice, I drive sensibly, and it gets me wherever I choose to go without hesitation, including the odd airshow where it has proved useful whilst working off road on a damp airfield whilst actually working behind the scenes at events helping the public enjoy their day out.

God help me if I were to choose a 6×4 ex-army Pinzgauer – that’s 2 more wheels to debate about!!!

The debate could go on for ever, sadly….

Moderator Message

Gentlemen,

I strongly advise you to read frankvw’s posting once again. (see above)

I doubt he made it purely for the good of his health, and I assure you that he speaks for all of the General Discussion moderators.

Please bear this in mind.

Thank you

GA

ahhhh will you come on now…give us a giggle will you ???Go on ..its great for the complexion 😀

By the way on the subject of names ie : Troll..what do you call someone who doesn’t read a complete tread or at least picks bits and pieces and chooses what they want to take umbrage at ?

No no..they arnt 4×4 drivers !!! :diablo:

To answer your question……..Hurrifan.:rolleyes:

Otherwise that post just reinforces the actuality of the accusation.

And the above perfectly proves the point.:rolleyes:

ahhhh will you come on now…give us a giggle will you ???Go on ..its great for the complexion 😀

By the way on the subject of names ie : Troll..what do you call someone who doesn’t read a complete tread or at least picks bits and pieces and chooses what they want to take umbrage at ?

No no..they arnt 4×4 drivers !!! :diablo:

Faith and begorrah sire..sure aint i only a little fella all right….:rolleyes:

Now you really are taking the biscuit old boy….YOU calling ME a Troll….YOU???

Jeez…you should have been on the stage ..you missed your true vocation!!:dev2: finally , finally a sense of humour…not a great sense of humour but at least a good attempt ! keep at it ye will get there eventually!

And the above perfectly proves the point.:rolleyes:

Coming from you that is hilarious!:rolleyes:

BTW you should realise that Hurrifan is a troll.

Faith and begorrah sire..sure aint i only a little fella all right….:rolleyes:

Now you really are taking the biscuit old boy….YOU calling ME a Troll….YOU???

Jeez…you should have been on the stage ..you missed your true vocation!!:dev2: finally , finally a sense of humour…not a great sense of humour but at least a good attempt ! keep at it ye will get there eventually!

I’m not anti-4×4 per se (regular cars with 4×4 as made by Subaru, Audi etc) are brilliant, and if you have a genuine need for an off road vehicle then there is no debate at all. What i do find hard to understand, without saying I make a point of arguing the point with their owners, is why you’d buy a less efficient, worse handling, worse performing alternative to a regular car if you never leave the tarmac? To me that just doesn’t add up, if you want the extra traction of 4×4 for winter driving there are plenty of regular 4×4 cars out there that are much, much better options than a SUV. Just my opinion, but I’m not advocating telling people what they’re allowed to drive, just voicing my own opinion.

Moderator’s message

Smartass comments, wether in english or in latin, won’t help the discussion. So I strongly encourage you to let it be and debate in a polite way, or face the consequences…

Scito te ipsum Sir Sealordlawrence !

Certainly lacking in that department.

Coming from you that is hilarious!:rolleyes:

BTW you should realise that Hurrifan is a troll.

its the old humour thing again old boy! :diablo:

Certainly lacking in that department.

Likewise there are drivers of Ford Ka’s and similar sized vehicles who aren’t safe being allowed out in their cars. Regardless of vehicle size there are some drivers who should not even be allowed out on a pushbike, in fact I wouldn’t trust some of them with a wheelless wheelbarrow they’d still be a danger to themselves and the community.

yep its a great old driving world in Ireland….

A number of years ago there was a serious back log in driving tests..so what was the solution that the politicians came up with?

Give all the unqualified drivers who had renewed their provisional licence twice (?) a full driving licence!! brilliant wasn’t it !!:mad:

You are right with regard to muppets only driving Jeeps ..it isnt that exclusive a club!

Don’t ever go to the US then… 😉

Whilst it needs some getting used to, passing cars on the “other side” (which is on the right in the civilised world :diablo: ) helps a lot in dense traffic, when nitwits stay on the “fast” or the middle lane because they are afraid a car entering the freeway might hit them.

Nothing worse than coming across some plonker who wont use the inner lane..

That and turning right at a red light when no cars are coming should be made legal everywhere.

isnt it ???:dev2:

…