Four flying Lightning's together.

What a superb sight! A big thankyou to all involved in what must be difficult work keeping four Lightnings, the Buccs and Hunters airworthy.

In this time of Political Correctness I think the lack of an airworthy Lightning is against my Human Rights. One should be provided immediately or failing that I should be given a ticket to SA straightaway. The lack is making me depressed. :diablo: :rolleyes:

On a more serious note, if a team did approach the design holders and the CAA; surely it would not be beyond them to construct a solution?

😮 wow wish we had an English Electric Lightning 4-ship formation over here in the UK or that they came over here on a tour would be bloody brilliant.

James

Markp451a,

That vid was incredible, I’ve drooled all over my keyboard!

MORE, MORE, MORE………

slurp

http://slopesoaring.tripod.com/video/index.htm

Just found this video

Werever a Lightning is registered you still have to get permission from the UK CAA to be able to fly one over here.

It was mooted that Mr Beechyhead was having talks with the CAA to be able to ferry fly one over here for some appearences on the airshow circuit, this may be feasable as Thundercity has a Buccaneer configured as an AAR tanker.

This has been discussed elsewhere within this forum and I think that red tape and other complications would prevent this from ever happening.

Regards,

John.

Couldn’t a Lightening be registered overseas to get round the caa?

Or am I being a trifle optimistic…? :rolleyes:

Spot on Scramble Bill. Ive just dribbled all over my keyboard. And yes CAA get your act together lets get one up in its rightful place ie UK skies.

Forget it, health and safety would never allow it. Once again Britain is behind the rest of the world…
_________________________________

Jesus john… need a cigarette after that description! talk about a detailed account of an air display its almost like being there.. reminds me of when I was a small bairn standing at the crash gate at Binbrook!

Its got nothing to do with the electronics or the CAA perse. Its the Design authority. Like any other british authority the CAA want to cover their back sides. the way to do that is insist that the oracle itself under writes any machine in the complex category, which in this case would be Bae, and they dont want to know. Hardly surprising in the increasingly litegeous country we live in.

“can someone tell me why the CAA won’t let a Lightning fly in the UK? Can’t we handle it ???”

for what its worth I seem to remember that the electronics are also no longer considered airworthy but that may have come from the same programme that showed Clarkson getting one as a lawn ornament 😮

ahhh, the old will we wont we see it debate! 😀

I hope you mother isnt reading this Andy. tut tut bunking off to go and

see silly aeroplanes indeed. pfffft.you naughty boy! playing truant gets the cane you know!. 😀

FMK6 John. Agree with many of your points 🙂 , but As Andy says, its a big big gulf! Even if an airframe was perfect to start with.

it still has to be taken to bits, no matter how recently it has been refurbished, so the gap between ground running and flying inherently is a big one, and even more so if the airframe has problems. As for 671, Ill set the record straight here, from the horses mouth. 😉

Her FI is indeed 81, and unlike the RAF FI records ( which 6/10 times can be reduced from the form 700) the Saudi airframes were 100% accurate.
Max FI was never assumed,for out of area deployment. The hours are 2119, 42 mins.

It had a major in 85 just before return to the uk, so All lifed components are bewteen 5- 50% used, most being less that 35%, eg, the jet pipes which have just 19 hours on them. We have been lucky taking on an aiframe that was a tin can, with all components removed for us already by bae, hence been able to inspect, refurb,replace, where required, luckily having just about every major aerospace supplier half a mile away, which makes life much simpler!
even though everything we do on it is treated as if it were flying, and done to those standards (thats just the only way to treat a Lightning, no compromise), and even after 5500+ man hours of restoration (so far) and new engines, she would require work, two new gear bay door hindge castings for instance, and to be on the safe side she would ideally require both No1 thrust panels replacing, which is not a job for the faint hearted! 😮 one or two skin repairs here and there, from wear and tear. Like any candidate, she would also have to be rewired completely. She would have to be stripped again by the OEM regardless of our paper work, or work done.

So already, thats probably a million quids worth of work from MArshalls or Bae., before you have even looked at the usual, ie main gear, Fin, canopy.
etc. All the new or nearly new components we have, or have fitted still have to have OEM inspection regardless, as its new old stock. Any other airframes that have FI left and hours without serious corossion problems? well that leaves hardly any candidates. Yes 458 is a candidate. she has FI. Most of the ex RAF ones arent candidates because they have already had 400 hour moded life extensions, and have since exceeded that extension, so theres no room to stretch the life. I dont know if the 400 hour mod applies to 904 and 728, but certainly does for 724.

Whilst we, LPG, Lightning association, AALO and one or two others, have a fairly large spares inventory, its the critical spares that are important, and those are short in the UK. That is an undeniable problem that would have to be overcome.

Never say never, but its a seriously tall order. And at risk of starting a bun fight, contrary to the rumour mill, the CAA isnt the problem as such, and never has been. (shock horror! 😀 ) The Vulcan and the Bucc are testiment to that.

There are really very little options left in the UK for a flying Lightning simply becouse all (now four!) of the best are in SA, the obviouse to some are 728 or 904 as they are as close to airworthy as visable becouse they have been untouched since flying into Brunty all that time ago.

This is not really a suitable option becouse fatigue as you say is up on both but I have been watching with keen interest Gatwick Aviations ex Saudi Lightning 53-671/G-27-41/ZF 579.

They have done a fantastic job of bringing a dismantled basket case back to life, they have fitted zero timed engines, new nose gear, many new spares have been fitted, most systems have been re-condtioned and brought back to life……the list goes on, if you did not know any better by looking at their web site you would be forgiven for thinking that they are actually going to fly this bird.

What is most impressive is that the FI for this airframe is just 81.12 out of 105 max, this gives enough FI for a long career on the display circuit.

This s all speculative day dreaming mind and I am sure that there may be one or two others out there that could be possible candidates, what about the two seater at Cranfield?, if the CAA set a limit on the Lightning of subsonic speeds and a max height of 10,000ft then why should it be any different thatn a Hunter/Bucc/558?.

IIRC the Lightning’s display was subsonic and low level so this shouldn’t be a problem, and for sure it was the showstopping event to beat all, Finningly, Binbrook, fresh cut grass, avtur, getting lost in the crowd and then there it is…………low in the distance, a speck…….the crowd grows calm and an uneasy silence falls upon the airfield with just the sound of birds in the background.

There is a whisper amongst the people as the speck grows larger…..larger…….larger, the wings appear and the tail pearces the sky in that unmistakable silhouette that is defined as the peerless English Electric Lightning.

The heart skips, still no sound just the birds and the gentle sound of people jostling for a better view, you don’t notice now that you are rooted to the spot, all feeling and sensation bellow the waist has gone, you just concentrait on getting that beutifull sight picture as it looms closer.

It is not long as the Lightning has turned into the circuit to beat up the airfield and there is that distinct little trail of smoke as the coals are poured on and the burners are lit………it’s comming.

The noise is increasing now…..louder….louder untill all other noise is cancelled out and the ground is resonates to the sound of Avons, banking the Lightning passes at full chat with less than 100ft on the Rad Alt and clouds of condensation spilling off the upper wing surfaces, as it nears the end of the crowd line she pulls up into a vertical climb that sees her dissappear into the cloud with only that unmistakable rumble as your internal organs begin to move back to where they came from.

It’s been 18 long years since that spectacle was last bestowed upon me and I dream of the day it will happen again, all the F14’s-15’s-16’s-18’s will never make up for what should be and that is a flying Lightning in the UK, Lightndattic take note 😉 .

Regards,

John.

Here, here John couldnt have said it better myself,
As you may be aware Ive been very close to Lightnings for over 20 years and know them inside and out, and they still send a tingle down my spine.
I would agree that the T5 458 would be the best canditate for flight on many levels but like I said it would need a massive effort from all parties.
I know the guys at Gatwick, MJR being a close Lightningite, they have done a wonderfull job on their’s, but its one thing to go for ground running but flight is a big leap.
We are commited to keeping our two running for as long as is safely possible and then retiring them to the Q shed

Your description of a Lightning display was perfect, like so many out there I saw my first display when just a young lad in about 73 at a local air show, there I was stood in the crowd with my family, the commentator told us the Lightning was 2 minutes inbound, but from where ?
Then from behind the crowd yes thats right behind the crowd, an F3 from Binbrook swooped in low over our heads, the nose came up and pulled into the vertical just infront of the crowd line both burners blazing, I can still see those burners now, she just kept going rolling off in a patch of blue at god knows what altitude, then out of sight and back down for a low fast pass left to right, and then gone.

After that I witnessed many Lightning displays and spent most of my college time bunking off on my motor bike up to Binbrook just to stand and watch.

I was hooked, the rest is history as they say

Cheers
Andy B (LPG)

One of the highlights of my visits to the airshows at Biggin Hill in the 1970’s was a Lightning roaring up the runway then pulling up into what looked like a vertical climb and the pilot calling out his height as he disappeared! Can’t recall the height though.

Pity I wasn’t around for the Javelin! That must have been impressive!

Peter

Fantastic Video, takes me back to my passing out Parade at Swinderby (May ’88) the last one with a Lightning Flypast (my Dad stood with his back to the parade watching them holding out to the south!)

One thing I will say is that having read ‘Thunder & Lightnings’ as a yoof, I was prepared to appreciate their last days, hence my decision to go to Binbrook for a second ATC summer camp, and lucked out being there for the week before the last of the lightning show. 😀

Which airframe would you choose though John ?

Most of the UK airframes that could be considered are up on FI, including our two.
You would want a T5 really, what am I saying just forget it, it aint gonna happen, a simular set up to the 558 thing would be needed.

There are really very little options left in the UK for a flying Lightning simply becouse all (now four!) of the best are in SA, the obviouse to some are 728 or 904 as they are as close to airworthy as visable becouse they have been untouched since flying into Brunty all that time ago.

This is not really a suitable option becouse fatigue as you say is up on both but I have been watching with keen interest Gatwick Aviations ex Saudi Lightning 53-671/G-27-41/ZF 579.

They have done a fantastic job of bringing a dismantled basket case back to life, they have fitted zero timed engines, new nose gear, many new spares have been fitted, most systems have been re-condtioned and brought back to life……the list goes on, if you did not know any better by looking at their web site you would be forgiven for thinking that they are actually going to fly this bird.

What is most impressive is that the FI for this airframe is just 81.12 out of 105 max, this gives enough FI for a long career on the display circuit.

This s all speculative day dreaming mind and I am sure that there may be one or two others out there that could be possible candidates, what about the two seater at Cranfield?, if the CAA set a limit on the Lightning of subsonic speeds and a max height of 10,000ft then why should it be any different thatn a Hunter/Bucc/558?.

IIRC the Lightning’s display was subsonic and low level so this shouldn’t be a problem, and for sure it was the showstopping event to beat all, Finningly, Binbrook, fresh cut grass, avtur, getting lost in the crowd and then there it is…………low in the distance, a speck…….the crowd grows calm and an uneasy silence falls upon the airfield with just the sound of birds in the background.

There is a whisper amongst the people as the speck grows larger…..larger…….larger, the wings appear and the tail pearces the sky in that unmistakable silhouette that is defined as the peerless English Electric Lightning.

The heart skips, still no sound just the birds and the gentle sound of people jostling for a better view, you don’t notice now that you are rooted to the spot, all feeling and sensation bellow the waist has gone, you just concentrait on getting that beutifull sight picture as it looms closer.

It is not long as the Lightning has turned into the circuit to beat up the airfield and there is that distinct little trail of smoke as the coals are poured on and the burners are lit………it’s comming.

The noise is increasing now…..louder….louder untill all other noise is cancelled out and the ground is resonates to the sound of Avons, banking the Lightning passes at full chat with less than 100ft on the Rad Alt and clouds of condensation spilling off the upper wing surfaces, as it nears the end of the crowd line she pulls up into a vertical climb that sees her dissappear into the cloud with only that unmistakable rumble as your internal organs begin to move back to where they came from.

It’s been 18 long years since that spectacle was last bestowed upon me and I dream of the day it will happen again, all the F14’s-15’s-16’s-18’s will never make up for what should be and that is a flying Lightning in the UK, Lightndattic take note 😉 .

Regards,

John.

Damn 😡 … see, I had these screaming kids to attend to and must have just missed them. Oh well, I did see them the next day from home though.. Did you take any pics Kukri?

🙂 – you see that’s why I went twice – my family lack the required “enthusiasm” to spend the whole day – took Mrs K, and Miss K on Sunday. Miss K insisted on standing in the queue for 30 mins so that she could sit in the gripen! For a four-year old, that’s quite impressive! Today she went to school wearing a Gripen sticker….

Took 200-odd pics – only one halfway decent pic of the lightnings – combo of small zoom lens and even smaller photographer skill set…

Will probably sift through them and post over the course of the week…

I can understand and appreciate the historical significance of the Lightning to our British friends, but I’m just not that impressed by them. Maybe I’m just jaded by the fact that I grew up watching F-14s, 15s, 16s, and 18’s. To me, that video looked like and was about as exciting as watching a flight of A-7’s.

Please forgive my youthful naivety. 🙁

Sorry pal, I suspect that you are from the good old US of A, I have been going to airshows for 50 years and seen just about everything, including all those that you have mentioned, but believe me, absolutely nothing can compare to a Lightning being chucked around the sky, the shape, the sound, the power, and I’ve seen the damned thing go supersonic, all contemporary US jets were pussycats in comparison, it’s a sad loss to the UK airshow scene.
As far as I’m concerned, the only other jet that comes close in terms of noise and excitability is the Mig-21, the F-14 trailing a long way behind in third place.
Nice to see Ian Black was flying in the formation, who would have believed all those years ago that this would be happening in South Africa in 2006.
Rock on Dudes.

Damn 😡 … see, I had these screaming kids to attend to and must have just missed them. Oh well, I did see them the next day from home though.. Did you take any pics Kukri?

Lightning Four Ship

The 4-ship flew on Saturday afternoon as well (about 15h30 or thereabouts) – I waited specifically for them before getting stuck in traffic 🙂

I went to the airshow on Saturday. The 4 ship formation happened on Sunday, so I did not get any pics. They did come screaming over my head in a diamond 4 formation over the suburb of Milnerton, which is very close to Ysterplaat. They were low and beautiful!!