Fradley/Lichfield air show disaster 18.9.48

One question: why is 1946 so much worse than 1945? Or is it only losses for 1945 after VE-Day / VJ-Day?[/QUOTE]

My feeling is that I it had a lot to do with the introduction of jet aircraft post war. A book I have called wings over Somerset details all the losses in or connected with the county from 1945 onwards. The early post war years are a grim read with Meteors, Vampires & Venoms crashing at a rate of around 2 per week. In most cases it says pilots had 100+ hours on piston types but usually less than 10 hours on the jets.

It appears 10 Spectators died at Manston that day in Sept 1948, including sadly a mother and her 2 year old son (her other son survived). 3 others were badly injured (though it appears they recovered). You can find names online, but one is incorrectly listed as ‘Frederick Austin’ his correct name was Frederick Edward Rustin,

Clearly a misunderstanding from you here Southern Air99, if you read my full post and context you will see also I too was standing up for the person who started this interesting and personal post and my annoyance was at “Nachtjagd” who stepped in with an irrelevant Shoreham reference. I am fully in agreement with you here.

Sincerest apologies, a clear misunderstanding on my part.

I was just trying to stand up for the person who started this thread who had a genuine and valid inquiry, with no malice or provocation intended, who you answered with an uncalled for post with a rather rude tone to it…besides if you do not like the thread or whatever is your issue you do not have to look at the thread and can take pains to avoid it should you feel so strongly about it.

Clearly a misunderstanding from you here Southern Air99, if you read my full post and context you will see also I too was standing up for the person who started this interesting and personal post and my annoyance was at “Nachtjagd” who stepped in with an irrelevant Shoreham reference. I am fully in agreement with you here.

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One question: why is 1946 so much worse than 1945? Or is it only losses for 1945 after VE-Day / VJ-Day?

I suspect that the answers lie more within the realms of psychology, than operational activities.

There was probably an element of feeling invincible, having survived the war, maybe a perception that mortal hazard had finally ceased, and flying was now just a breeze.
Ex combatants were known to become bored and restless, and there was perhaps an impulse to push the limits in pursuit of thrills and excitement, that peace-time flying was less likely to provide.

To survive the conflict, and then lose your life in a peacetime accident has a bitter irony about it .

The fact that 3 Mosquitoes were lost at shows in 1948 has to put in the context of the overall RAF losses of the time…

Indeed; somewhere in storage I have some books by Colin Cummings (I think?) that list RAF accident loss details day-by-day from 1945 until about 1990. The overall toll is terrible but three Mosquitos lost in a single day still surprises me.

The stark figures you quoted are shocking; not a single year without a fatality?

One question: why is 1946 so much worse than 1945? Or is it only losses for 1945 after VE-Day / VJ-Day?

Sorry I can’t find the rules of this forum that defines mine as pointless and your retort not?

I was just trying to stand up for the person who started this thread who had a genuine and valid inquiry, with no malice or provocation intended, who you answered with an uncalled for post with a rather rude tone to it…besides if you do not like the thread or whatever is your issue you do not have to look at the thread and can take pains to avoid it should you feel so strongly about it.

One hundred and fifty meteors lost in a single year ! Carnage.

Flying postwar jets was a dangerous business. That’s easy to forget now that military accident rates are so low.

Something I try to remind people when they start throwing around losses of one particular model…like the Starfighter.

As far as this being an insensitive question in the wake of the recent crash, I’ll point out that crash-adverse FlyPast ran a story on this very subject this month…in the same issue as their note of the Hunter accident.
So obviously, they didn’t see a problem…or perhaps it was too late to make changes.

A Mosquito crashed near Coningsby, Lincolnshire, an hour before a Battle of Britain programme was due to begin on Saturday. The pilot, Sqn Ldr G W Curry, who had led the wartime raid on the Dortmund-Ems Canal, and Cpl H Davis, were killed.

.

What a waste,to survive the war and die doing that 🙁

Just to complete my #13, the aircraft that crashed at Manston was TE808, and the one at Lichfield was TA507.

The third Mosquito crash on the 18th was VA887 of 139 Sqn at the Coningsby BoB display; this from the 20 September edition of The Times:

A Mosquito crashed near Coningsby, Lincolnshire, an hour before a Battle of Britain programme was due to begin on Saturday. The pilot, Sqn Ldr G W Curry, who had led the wartime raid on the Dortmund-Ems Canal, and Cpl H Davies, were killed.

The report might be in error in respect of the time, as other reports imply the aircraft was recovering from a slow roll below its briefed height, and hit the ground during the display. (http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=73644).

Brian

PS: Davies was a passenger.

Speaking of uninformed, pointless and high handed posts…

Sorry I can’t find the rules of this forum that defines mine as pointless and your retort not?

😮 15 Wellingtons ,are these all training exercises ,maybe night flying.Surely the RAF was a mixture of highly experienced ex wartime crews and new starters,just madness.

In the light of the heavy losses to bomber crews some might find your forum name offensive. Additionally some may find your instant and unfounded accusational tone and pointless post without being informed whatsoever of the reason behind the request and no follow up or apology in light of the information here rude too.

As for the considered and informed responses I never cease to be amazed by he knowledge and access to information followers of this forum have. I am now informed of tragedies I was not even aware of and I can remember and pay respects in my own way.

Speaking of uninformed, pointless and high handed posts…

One hundred and fifty meteors lost in a single year ! Carnage.

The fact that 3 Mosquitoes were lost at shows in 1948 has to put in the context of the overall RAF losses of the time.

I’m sure these numbers have been quoted here before, but it’s worth repeating them.
It seems inconceiveable nwow that this kind of accident rate was considered acceptable.

Over on the other forum, John Blakeley compiled the following numbers for RAF losses – the 3 columns are year, airframes, fatalities:

Year Number of Aircraft
Lost – Cat 3 + Fatalities

1945 592 638
1946 1014 677
1947 420 176
1948 424 205
1949 438 224
1950 380 238
1951 490 280
1952 507 318
1953 483 333
1954 452 283
1955 305 182
1956 270 150
1957 233 139
1958 128 87
1959 102 59
1960 80 46
1961 74 55
1962 68 50
1963 60 41
1964 62 33
1965 46 71
1966 62 33
1967 60 60
1968 51 43
1969 31 22
1970 36 25
1971 40 72
1972 28 22
1973 30 21
1974 16 5
1975 21 17
1976 33 20
1977 14 7
1978 25 27
1979 27 13
1980 24 13
1981 26 7
1982 35 10
1983 26 19
1984 23 4
1985 19 9
1986 19 10
1987 20 17
1988 19 18
1989 17 9
1990* 29 19
1991* 27 15
1992* 17 8
1993* 17 13
1994* 17 34
1995* 13 9
1996* 21 2
1997* 12 3
1998* 11 3
1999* 18 6
2000* 9 1
2001* 12 4
2002* 9 3
2003* 6 11
2004* 6 13

7554 4928

The figures from 1990* onwards are from the Defence Statistical Agency and include all military flying accidents – RAF, RN, Army and DPA.

With something like 70% of the accidents (RAF only) in the first 10 years and only 1.5% (all services) in the last 10 years you can see the massive change. The casualty figures are even better – 1.1% in the past 10 years – perhaps reflecting even more glory on Martin Baker!

!946 was certainly a bad year for Boards of Inquiries but with 2-3 aircrew deaths for every flying day (50 weeks times 5 days) it is amazing that the system seemed to cope with such losses without massive public criticism – but this is before my time – so perhaps there was.

“Schiller” then listed the 1952 casualties

The total RAF losses for 1952 were:

18 Ansons
1 Athena
22 Austers
1 Balliol
1 Beaufighter
9 Brigands
1 Buckmaster
9 Canberras
15 Chipmunks
1 Dakota
1 Dragonfly
1 Halifax
37 Harvards
3 Hastings
10 Hornets
6 Lancasters
6 Lincolns
1 Martinet
150 Meteors
32 Mosquitos
21 Oxfords
9 Prentices
5 Proctors
1 Sabre
2 Shackletons
7 Spitfires
1 Sunderland
1 Sycamore
5 Tempests
20 Tiger Moths
11 Valettas
82 Vampires
2 Varsities
1 Venom
1 Washington
15 Wellingtons

Total 505 aircraft.

Casualties were 315 killed plus 6 killed on the ground.

In the light of the heavy losses to bomber crews some might find your forum name offensive. Additionally some may find your instant and unfounded accusational tone and pointless post without being informed whatsoever of the reason behind the request and no follow up or apology in light of the information here rude too.

No offence taken by this forumite…….. Some good research.

On 18 Sep 1948:

Mosquito TE808, Mosquito TA507, Mosquito VA887…

Incredible that it was once possible to lose three Mosquitos on the same day at, presumably, Battle-of-Britain air displays (in two cases, at least)!

Pamela: in the light of the tragic crash at Shoreham on Saturday, some might see your post as a bit insensitive?

In the light of the heavy losses to bomber crews some might find your forum name offensive. Additionally some may find your instant and unfounded accusational tone and pointless post without being informed whatsoever of the reason behind the request and no follow up or apology in light of the information here rude too.

As for the considered and informed responses I never cease to be amazed by he knowledge and access to information followers of this forum have. I am now informed of tragedies I was not even aware of and I can remember and pay respects in my own way.

Dear Pamela & aviation forum friends.
Thank you (Pamela) for taking the time to ask and (forum friends) gather this new information about the immediate aftermath of Stan’s crash. The information you gathered shed new (albeit tragic) light on whose who experienced the events of that horrific day. I have a particularly personal connection. Stanley was my grandfather. Both my grandmother (Stan’s wife) and my father (age 4) were present at the airshow that day. I cannot begin to comprehend how devastating that must have been for them throughout their lives. I knew my grandmother well – a lovely, sunny-hearted woman, who raised my father with her sisters and their husbands. My father is a singular man, whose son i am proud to be. He will be touched when i tell him that you visited Stan’s grave to honour him.
Best, Nick

It’s a sobering fact but the RAF lost a total of six aircraft on 18th.Sept. 1948 – a Tiger Moth at Dyce, a Spitfire PR19 at Leuchars [ pilot killed], three Mosquitoes at Lichfield [ two killed], Manston [two aircrew and ten civilians killed] and Coningsby [two aircrew killed] respectively and an Oxford at Lindholme.