Freighters

I think I have several points to make here, resulting from numerous comments, hence no quotes….

Firstly, it is extremely important that freighters are reliable, ESPECIALLY when looking at the integrators (DHL, UPS, FedEx, TNT etc). By the very nature of their business they must have reliable operations in order that they may promise tight delivery times. These companies are the largest parcel and freight handlers going. I think the fact is that freight tends to be less bothered whether it is in a nice shiny new aeroplane or a 15 year old model doing much the same thing. When airlines boast about the average age of their fleets it is designed to impress passengers. So the freight carriers can capitalise on second hand aircrfat rates. Don’t be fooled though, many freight companies do buy NEW aircraft, ie. Cargolux 747s, UPS 757/767Fs, A300s, Fedex A300s and some earlier A310s. Furthermore add to that the fact that Air France, SIA and many other airlines tend to add new freighters to their fleets.

In answer to Robbelc, freight carriers tend to be very profitable, and there are plenty of examples of good freight airlines. Just because a freight carrier is an arm of a passenger carrier, does not mean it is not a profitable standalone business, in fact most of these airlines are almost completely standalone and profitable, I name companies such as Lufthansa Cargo, Air France Cargo and SIA Cargo among many (Japan airlines’ subsiduary, ANC….All Nippon Cargo, which actually is not fully owned by ANA, KAL Cargo, Eva Airways Cargo, China Airlines’ Cargo arm…the list REALLY goes on). It was rumoured for many years that a 747 could fly across the Atlantic and make a profit based on belly hold cargo alone, without any passengers! Reliable freight servcies are worth their weight in gold, and as tenthije may testify they pay very good rates..certainly above the rate a passenger pays considereing the amount of space they use.

Freight is one of the fastest growing areas of Air Transport, the switches to JIT (Just In Time) processing and changes to the types of industry out there (ie small volume, high value such as IT equipment) are driving such growth.

I think I have several points to make here, resulting from numerous comments, hence no quotes….

Firstly, it is extremely important that freighters are reliable, ESPECIALLY when looking at the integrators (DHL, UPS, FedEx, TNT etc). By the very nature of their business they must have reliable operations in order that they may promise tight delivery times. These companies are the largest parcel and freight handlers going. I think the fact is that freight tends to be less bothered whether it is in a nice shiny new aeroplane or a 15 year old model doing much the same thing. When airlines boast about the average age of their fleets it is designed to impress passengers. So the freight carriers can capitalise on second hand aircrfat rates. Don’t be fooled though, many freight companies do buy NEW aircraft, ie. Cargolux 747s, UPS 757/767Fs, A300s, Fedex A300s and some earlier A310s. Furthermore add to that the fact that Air France, SIA and many other airlines tend to add new freighters to their fleets.

In answer to Robbelc, freight carriers tend to be very profitable, and there are plenty of examples of good freight airlines. Just because a freight carrier is an arm of a passenger carrier, does not mean it is not a profitable standalone business, in fact most of these airlines are almost completely standalone and profitable, I name companies such as Lufthansa Cargo, Air France Cargo and SIA Cargo among many (Japan airlines’ subsiduary, ANC….All Nippon Cargo, which actually is not fully owned by ANA, KAL Cargo, Eva Airways Cargo, China Airlines’ Cargo arm…the list REALLY goes on). It was rumoured for many years that a 747 could fly across the Atlantic and make a profit based on belly hold cargo alone, without any passengers! Reliable freight servcies are worth their weight in gold, and as tenthije may testify they pay very good rates..certainly above the rate a passenger pays considereing the amount of space they use.

Freight is one of the fastest growing areas of Air Transport, the switches to JIT (Just In Time) processing and changes to the types of industry out there (ie small volume, high value such as IT equipment) are driving such growth.

I think one of the big reasons for airlines phasing out older aircraft – is reliability and cost of maintainence. The way I see it is that cargo operators don’t require the large dispatch reliability that an airline does. Generally they seem to have an extra aircraft to take-over. If a plane goes tech, not a great problem, don’t have to put up parcels in a hotel. Maintainence wise, the cheaper accquistion costs make-up for the slightly increase maintainence/fuel costs. Feel free to correct me 🙂

Your age and maintencance idea is stumped when it comes to the MD-11

That aircraft is being phased out of PAX service purely because it is rubbish.
Poor range, horrible fuel economy.

DC made the mistake of not redesigning the wing. All they did was put a plug on the fuselage and add winglets.
baaaaad move. They missed just about all their performance targets.

HOWEVER, it makes a superb freighter.
That extension to the fuselage allows lots of room for loading equipment as the wings and engines are well out of the way. This allows for quicker turn arounds.
It also carries a good lump of cargo.

Range is not too much of an issue for Cargo airlines. No pax to inconvenience with a fuel stop. A simplistic explination, but essentialy true.

I think one of the big reasons for airlines phasing out older aircraft – is reliability and cost of maintainence. The way I see it is that cargo operators don’t require the large dispatch reliability that an airline does. Generally they seem to have an extra aircraft to take-over. If a plane goes tech, not a great problem, don’t have to put up parcels in a hotel. Maintainence wise, the cheaper accquistion costs make-up for the slightly increase maintainence/fuel costs. Feel free to correct me 🙂

Your age and maintencance idea is stumped when it comes to the MD-11

That aircraft is being phased out of PAX service purely because it is rubbish.
Poor range, horrible fuel economy.

DC made the mistake of not redesigning the wing. All they did was put a plug on the fuselage and add winglets.
baaaaad move. They missed just about all their performance targets.

HOWEVER, it makes a superb freighter.
That extension to the fuselage allows lots of room for loading equipment as the wings and engines are well out of the way. This allows for quicker turn arounds.
It also carries a good lump of cargo.

Range is not too much of an issue for Cargo airlines. No pax to inconvenience with a fuel stop. A simplistic explination, but essentialy true.

I guess that I remember WYS writting once that some VS routes are profitable with only the cargo pay load. Pax are just bonus.

Only on some routes. Also, pax come first on pax services so you can’t always carry full pax, fuel and cargo. If weight was an issue you limit the amount of cargo you can carry.

If you wat even more profit, have a dedicated cargo operation aswell as your pax operation. 😀

I guess that I remember WYS writting once that some VS routes are profitable with only the cargo pay load. Pax are just bonus.

Only on some routes. Also, pax come first on pax services so you can’t always carry full pax, fuel and cargo. If weight was an issue you limit the amount of cargo you can carry.

If you wat even more profit, have a dedicated cargo operation aswell as your pax operation. 😀

I guess that I remember WYS writting once that some VS routes are profitable with only the cargo pay load. Pax are just bonus.

I guess that I remember WYS writting once that some VS routes are profitable with only the cargo pay load. Pax are just bonus.

The courier companys likes of Fedex, DHL(and contractors) etc do make money .But the freight only ‘airlines’ are few and far between, and short lived. Cargolux is one of the few(except the freight arms of SAL, DLH, KAL etc) that has stayed around. Look at AFX,they seemed to hardly operate at all? Most of the US companys like Katilla and Polar seem to survive on USAF contracts.

The courier companys likes of Fedex, DHL(and contractors) etc do make money .But the freight only ‘airlines’ are few and far between, and short lived. Cargolux is one of the few(except the freight arms of SAL, DLH, KAL etc) that has stayed around. Look at AFX,they seemed to hardly operate at all? Most of the US companys like Katilla and Polar seem to survive on USAF contracts.

Another thing to bear in mind when thinking of freight.

A lot of the freight is booked just a few days in advance at best. This last minute booking is very expensive. Only the largest of companies get a pre-assigned amount of cargo space in the hold on select flights. This alone makes the freight biz quite worthwhile I suspect.

Another thing to bear in mind when thinking of freight.

A lot of the freight is booked just a few days in advance at best. This last minute booking is very expensive. Only the largest of companies get a pre-assigned amount of cargo space in the hold on select flights. This alone makes the freight biz quite worthwhile I suspect.

Freight contracts have reliability ties which run into big bucks for a delayed or cancelled flights. For the likes of Fedex if your aircraft goes tech or is delayed and the parcels miss their 11am delivery deadline then they are delivered free of charge to the customer- how much do you think that costs on an MD-11 load? That is the reason they have the spares sat on the ground!

Very true!

A freight contract can be worth more than a 100 frequent flyers. The company I work for sends out loads of stuff by air, I’m talking numerous pallet loads here. At times even complete planes. Loosing an account like that would be felt by any airline. Loosing a frequent flyer is bad, but nowhere near as big a deal.

Freight contracts have reliability ties which run into big bucks for a delayed or cancelled flights. For the likes of Fedex if your aircraft goes tech or is delayed and the parcels miss their 11am delivery deadline then they are delivered free of charge to the customer- how much do you think that costs on an MD-11 load? That is the reason they have the spares sat on the ground!

Very true!

A freight contract can be worth more than a 100 frequent flyers. The company I work for sends out loads of stuff by air, I’m talking numerous pallet loads here. At times even complete planes. Loosing an account like that would be felt by any airline. Loosing a frequent flyer is bad, but nowhere near as big a deal.

I If a plane goes tech, not a great problem, don’t have to put up parcels in a hotel.

How wrong! Passengers moan, but customers from freight companies do too. if you loose one customer you may loose several routes – rather than several pax who take a seat a couple of times a year for example?

Freight contracts have reliability ties which run into big bucks for a delayed or cancelled flights. For the likes of Fedex if your aircraft goes tech or is delayed and the parcels miss their 11am delivery deadline then they are delivered free of charge to the customer- how much do you think that costs on an MD-11 load? That is the reason they have the spares sat on the ground!

I have heard many in the industry say that in the main the freight buisness is a much more profitable business than the pax side of things!

I If a plane goes tech, not a great problem, don’t have to put up parcels in a hotel.

How wrong! Passengers moan, but customers from freight companies do too. if you loose one customer you may loose several routes – rather than several pax who take a seat a couple of times a year for example?

Freight contracts have reliability ties which run into big bucks for a delayed or cancelled flights. For the likes of Fedex if your aircraft goes tech or is delayed and the parcels miss their 11am delivery deadline then they are delivered free of charge to the customer- how much do you think that costs on an MD-11 load? That is the reason they have the spares sat on the ground!

I have heard many in the industry say that in the main the freight buisness is a much more profitable business than the pax side of things!

The freighters might make money but their routes are not saturated by other players. I think the couriers tend to use specific companies, where foot pax will fly with anyone, and airlines knowing this always try to muscle in on the scene…

dme

The freighters might make money but their routes are not saturated by other players. I think the couriers tend to use specific companies, where foot pax will fly with anyone, and airlines knowing this always try to muscle in on the scene…

dme

AF is using 737’s for mail cargo. Every night the seat are removed and those birds are use as freighter. After that the seats are installed again for passenger purpose.

Lufthansa have used 737’s for freight… DO Lufthansa still use 737’s for cargo purposes?? They used to have those convertible 737’s where the seats were stripped out and the aircraft was used for freight at night.

I can’t really see the 737 and A320 being very successful as freighters… too small and can’t carry much… thus limiting them to only a few niche cargo flights. They could fly things like mail… but I can’t see anyone wanting enough of them to justify Airbus and Boeing to produce dedicated freighter versions of these types.