French Gowind OPV L'Adroit photos

Yes, back then I was under the mistaken impression that Gowind had waterline (not underwater) exhausts. Figured it out a month or two back, when the hi-def pics of her came out and when I read that the exhausts go through the inside of the bridge (who would have thought?). That was on another forum though. 😉

No schematics of Gowind yet, unfortunately. I have a few hunches of what goes where based on the construction photos, but that’s about it.

I believe you’re thinking of an underwater exhaust system? None of the ships discussed in this thread have that.

Yup, I was – cheers for the answer. Is this something that has recently been revealed/changed? I’m sure that it was your good self who mentioned about Gowind having an underwater exhaust on another forum a few months ago? (I was going on that since your info is usually solid gold.) 🙂

Are there any schematics of Gowind about on the net? I’m intrigued how she fits together and where everything goes.

Cheers again.

Does anyone have any detailed info on the intake/exhaust system, and any associated pros and cons of that layout? How similar is it to Valour‘s?

I believe you’re thinking of an underwater exhaust system? None of the ships discussed in this thread have that.

(I know Gowind’s exhausts are a bit confusing, since they’re very well hidden in the superstructure, behind the conical radar dome – they actually go through the bridge).

Does anyone have any detailed info on the intake/exhaust system, and any associated pros and cons of that layout? How similar is it to Valour‘s?

I guess that there must be a considerable penalty to that layout, to offset the sweet advantages, since most folks don’t use it?

Do you end up with noisy bubbles, or gassed fish all around you or something?

Seriously any and all info greatly appreciated, cheers.

Also, just realized that Navantia has a direct competitor (size-wise) to the Gowind OPV – it’s the BVL OPV delivered to Venezuela. Seems quite capable – wonder how much cheaper it is compared to BAM.

Not easy to say.
The contract for the 8 ships (4 BVL and 4 POVZEE) was nearly 1000 million €.
Of course, PVZEE would be more expensive (SMART-S, 4 Diesel, 76 “stealth”, more developed combat system) but BVL aren’t bad equipped being an OPV (Millenium, Sting, Mirador…). May be 60-70 million € BVL and 150-180 million POVZEE, or something like that…

Regards

The comparison between the Serviolas and the Gowind OPVs is certainly interesting. Only ~400t displacement between the two designs, and similar engines, but the jump in capabilities is quite substantial. IMHO, this explains why so many OPV designs bunch around in the 1,500-1,800t range – anything less (like the Serviolas) won’t cut it, and anything more is on the downward sloping side of the hypothetical “OPV efficiency curve”.

Also, just realized that Navantia has a direct competitor (size-wise) to the Gowind OPV – it’s the BVL OPV delivered to Venezuela. Seems quite capable – wonder how much cheaper it is compared to BAM.

I think that it’s also a matter of “kind of use” in every Navy. In Spain all the patrol missions in the boundaries of EEZ are nearly yet transferred to other services like Guardia Civil (a police service) or SVA (customs). Small patrol vessels (less than 1.000 t) are disappearing from the Armada order of battle. So, BAM ships will assume a role more similar to Floreals or even Lafayettes in French service, at a fraction of the cost of a proper frigate.
Other classes that must to go with the arrival of BAM are Descubierta corvettes (transformed in OPVs at the beginning of the 2000s) and, later, Serviola OPVs (a 1200 t PB).
Serviolas are not so different in concept compared to L’Adroit (well, 20 years of technical development ;)) and showed their limitations in the “Halibut War” vs Canada : Spain having to decide if she send a frigate, driving to an scale up in the conflict, or sending completely inadequate patrol boats (that suffered a lot in the North Atlantic waters).
May be those 20 years of technical evolution allow that a 1300 t ships achieves the capabilities of a 2000+ t ship a generation older, but curiously the trend in naval design seems to be “larger is better”.
Anyway, L’Adroit is a concept ship and the smallest of the Gowind family, with some members in the size range of the BAM.

Regards

Swerve, maybe, maybe not.

I’ve dug into every technical description that is publicly available for both designs (plus the Kiwi Otagos), which adds up to more than a few, and I’m just saying that I’m not seeing any major differences in patrol capability – aside from some of the ones I mentioned before (container carrying capacity, separate engine rooms etc. But these are not directly tied to OPV mission requirements – rather they provide flexibility to re-role for other more demanding missions, which is both the greatest strength and a bit of a weakness of the BAM design, since it does drive up costs).

Endurance and range are certainly in the same ballpark for all 3 designs and sufficient for oceanic OPV duties (e.g. Gowind carries 30m3 of aviation fuel, same as a Forbin class destroyer and 50% more than Otago – you can infer what you want about endurance. Too bad I don’t have the figure for BAM). Habitability – can’t say, need more info on Gowind.

I’m sure there are other trade-offs, but so far I haven’t seen anything too critical.

Endurance, habitability, & greater self-sufficiency? The ability to carry a lot more stuff which might be needed on long deployments?

Is DCNS also offering that reverse-sloped `wave piercing` bow on the Gowind series?
It was supposedly cost-neutral, so I can`t see why not, but then why not build the L`Adroit in that configuration?

IMHO L’Adroit is more a possible replacement for smaller patrol boats like P400or even A69 “avisos”.
BAM can operate NH-90 size helos and make more than 8000 nm at 15 n.
No doubt that L’Adroit will excel in a lot of missions, but for others (like anti-piracy along Somaly costs) seems a bit small an shortlegged. In that sense BAM are in the league of Floreals (but with a crew of 35-50)

Spain hopes to call home costly F-80s and F-100s from missions like de Africa Horn one and send BAMs in their place.

Snow Monkey beat me to it, but I don’t fully agree with you on that point.

Yes the Gowind OPV is intended to be (almost) cheap enough to replace patrol boats, but it also seems to offer most of the capability of a BAM (90%?). And in fact anti-piracy missions in the Indian Ocean are one of the core design drivers. Lots of capability for cheap – that’s the beauty of the concept, if it works.

So why is there a 1,100t difference between the BAM and Gowind? What capabilities are being traded-off?

I’m sure there are other trade-offs, but so far I haven’t seen anything too critical. Seakeeping is the big question mark, as Jonesy pointed out. I happen to believe that the long, low foredeck is intentional – goes back to the whole wave-piercing vs. wave riding debate in naval architecture. But I’m very curious to hear what happens when she hits a gale in the Bay of Biscay.

Soon enough hopefully we’ll find out if the “small high-seas OPV” concept actually works…

Will be interesting to see. Accepted wisdom is that you need 90m for acceptable pitch behaviour out in deep water. 87m might seem close enough but its still 10ft short coupled to an apparently low freeboard. Cant help but think she’s going to be very wet over the bows and it does look like she’s been designed with that in mind.

BAM can operate NH-90 size helos and make more than 8000 nm at 15 n.
No doubt that L’Adroit will excel in a lot of missions, but for others (like anti-piracy along Somaly costs) seems a bit small an shortlegged. In that sense BAM are in the league of Floreals (but with a crew of 35-50)

L’Adroit is representative of the medium variant DCNS plans for the Gowind family…
I believe the largest one is planned to be 2500 tons, pretty much on par with the BAM.
They also have a range of 8000nm, so it´s not so much that they are short legged, as they are a bit slower.
They´re also touted as being able to handle a ´10 ton helo´, so NH90 seems potentially do-able,
though that may preclude also boarding a UAV like the Camcopter (at least in the small/medium versions).
Obviously, Navantia is already experienced with exactly that niche, while it remains on paper with the Gowind family.
One does wonder if the MN finds funds to actually procure this class, exactly what displacement they would prefer…

But what the BAM doesn’t have is those stern ramps for launching and retrieving RHIBS. Given that patrol/escort ships are increasingly becoming platforms for all sorts of air, surface and sub-surface vehicles, manned and unmanned, that facility on l’Adroit is very useful.

IMHO L’Adroit is more a possible replacement for smaller patrol boats like P400or even A69 “avisos”.
BAM can operate NH-90 size helos and make more than 8000 nm at 15 n.
No doubt that L’Adroit will excel in a lot of missions, but for others (like anti-piracy along Somaly costs) seems a bit small an shortlegged. In that sense BAM are in the league of Floreals (but with a crew of 35-50)

Spain hopes to call home costly F-80s and F-100s from missions like de Africa Horn one and send BAMs in their place.

Regards

P.D. The second series of BAM was ordered last week. Another 3 patrol boats (to add to the 4 of the first lot), an oceanographic research ship and a vessel for submarine rescue and subsurface support.

Thanks for the pics Santi. I’m a big fan of the BAM design.

IMHO, the BAM is the benchmark against which DCNS’ effort should be measured against. The French have bet that they could design a much smaller and cheaper hull without compromising much in terms of OPV capabilities (sea keeping, endurance, mission payload). The main difference is that the Gowind OPV platform is too small to be readily adaptable to other roles requiring containerized ,or to build specialized sub-variants (for hydrography or mine hunting, for example), but that’s a logical tradeoff.

Soon enough hopefully we’ll find out if the “small high-seas OPV” concept actually works…

For a matter of comparison, a couple of images of the first BAM (P-41 Meteoro), ending these days her tests prior commision.

Regards

It’s an elegant design, but it would look even better if the heli-deck was extended further aft, covering at least part of the stern ramps area – if neccessary the heli-deck could be raised a bit. That would allow the heli hangar to be located aft of the superstructure rather than inside it, which in turn would allow for a reduction in the height of the superstucture.

And of course that conehead mast doesn’t help 😀

GoWind looks really top heavy. I wonder how her sea keeping abilities will be in rough weather.

It’s an optical illusion. Rather convincing too. But in fact Gowind’s bridge is on the same deck level as the Otago and BAM (you can check if you don’t believe me). It’s just that the shorter superstructure (lengthwise) and lower bow make it look a lot taller relative to the others.

GoWind looks really top heavy. I wonder how her sea keeping abilities will be in rough weather.