Future Ice Breaker – HMS Protector

Tent/retractable shelter?

So how are they going to store the helicopter ? Surely they are not going to lift it into the hold with that large Midships crane ? 😮

Navy News article on Protector, including a photo showing the repositioned flight deck: http://www.navynews.co.uk/news/1193-a-first-for-hms-protector-a-last-for-hms-gloucester.aspx

I guess its the Helicopter thats going to be one of the main issues as others have said desite the above. One of the questions will be if it can be considered advisable to operate in that part of the world without one ? I suspect it probably isn’t, in which case a small refit seems possible, despite the short charter. Remove the cranes, build a platform and fit one of the cheap tent Hanger jobbies like they did with the Bays ? It would be chilly, but it might work.

After that then they need to buy into someone elses programme. Interestingly I believe that what happens in the Falklands re the Oil situation may also be a significant factor and they may be waiting to see how that pans out in the next 2-3 years before making a final decision on what to do. The future position there will be much clearer by 2014. Maybe we could end up with a ‘Grey funnel line’ icebreaker ? :eek:;)

Has anybody noticed this!

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/operations-and-support/surface-fleet/assault-ships/hms-ocean/news/trusty_lynx_makes_it.htm

Totally slipped in under the radar, that means the specialist HAS.3ICE for the Antartic patrol are gone which fits in with my thinking that Protector will go without an attached flight for the moment.

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/operations-and-support/surface-fleet/antarctic-patrol-ship/hms-endurance/new_antarctic_patrol.htm

The fitting of a flight deck and a hangar aft should be somehow an very easy and also easy reversible conversion.

The German offshore supply ship Schepelsturm was fitted with a flight deck and hangar for one expedition in the Antarctica in 1979/80:
http://www.ddghansa-shipsphotos.de/schepelsturm100.htm

and was afterwards converted back into a offshore supply ship.

Well lets hope they don’t make the same mess of operating her as they did with Endurance.

I think this comment on rumration by one of their mods Levers_Aligned sums it up nicely:

Rest assured, once we’ve bought it and thrashed it to death by back-to-back deploying it through the tropics, stuck it through cheap refits in Falmouth where no-one gave a feck, expanded the ships company threefold, neglected to fully understand an upgrade path and obsolesence and tried to deploy it for 18 months on 2/3rds of a beleaguered crew who don’t know anything about the equipment, then you can fully hope for another disaster and an enquiry that whitewashes the real villains of the piece, whilst fingering knackered matelots who have simply had enough of a gash ship.

http://www.navy-net.co.uk/fleet/59105-hms-endurances-replacement-leased-icebreaker-named-hms-protector-2.html

If it is a three year lease I would think that is another three years without a helicopter flight. The owners are not going to be keen on the RN cutting her about to fit a hanger and proper helicopter landing deck. The refit for UK service that is being talked about will purely be secure comms kit and some moderate accomodation work.

Still brings about the question of Endurance, I get a vibe from recent press releases that the concept of keeping her is becoming more attractive. We shall see…

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/EquipmentAndLogistics/ReplacementForHmsEnduranceAnnounced.htm

Norwegian ice patrol ship MV Polarbjorn will be leased for three years.

Well the Falklands government operates two fishery protection vessels to help protect an EEZ.

Considering Fishing a significant income for the Falklands government its important to protect it from poaching. The Argentines don’t recognise the EEZ but generally respect it. On occasion the Fishery protection vessels will have confrontations with Argentine vessels both civilian and military who slip into Falkland waters. Usual reaction is to send the QRA birds at MPA and punch out a few flares over the uninvited guest. Or if the RN protection vessel is close by they might go and explain matters to the interlopers.

Also on occasion (usually when the Argentine government wants to rattle a sabre or get some good press) the Argentines will sail a warship right into Falklands waters and head towards the Islands and then start to stop Falklands licenced trawlers saying they are operating illegally in Argentine waters. Again the QRA birds and guardship will sort it out.

There are fisheries protection vessels down there too?

I ask because the activities of Japanese whalers have often crossed into the EEZ extending from Australia’s territorial claim on Antarctica. The position of the Japanese government – like most nations not recognising said territorial claim – is that there is no such EEZ and Australia’s response appears to have been to look the other way.

So if Britain actually does enforce (in practice as well as theory) the EEZ extending from its territorial claim that’s very interesting indeed.

Of course one of the reasons that the UK operates an Ice configured vessel is about maintaining territorial claim in the Antarctic but she does very much do things.

Supporting Science and the Antarctic survey is an important part of the job as well as working with the Falklands guard ship and fisheries protection vessels.

Can I ask what are the principal activities of this vessel? Is it merely a case of keeping Britain’s territorial claim to Antarctica ‘current’ or does it actually … do stuff? Is the EEZ actively enforced wrt fishing and the like?

Well Icebreakers need a rather sturdy hull, in respect of other in service vessels Endurance is fairly young.

The Argentine ARA Almirante Irízar which is in refit after the fire she suffered in 2007 was launched in 1978. If you want extreme when it comes to age the Russian (albeit British built) Krasin was launched during the First World war and retired in the 1990’s!

Yes that is what I am thinking as well Geoff_B, there just isn’t something available for sale or lease that has the features required. The main issue is lack of hanger on anything available! I have spent significant time looking myself and aside from the less then ideal Polarbjorn there just isn’t anything even close to suitable.

So I think lease Polarbjorn without a name change for three years and go without a helicopter flight. Then look at a deep (as in totally gut her) refit of Endurance. That means they can install systems and plant more in keeping with the training of the crew, sort out the accomodation that was always a problem and install some decent air conditioning so she can transit south far easier.

Apparently according to comments on Rumration the process of sending her back to the UK through warmer climes was causing serious wear to her machinary not to say deep uncomfort for her crew!

How much hull life is left with Endurance though? It might be the case that it would be a better use of money to just new build.

Yes that is what I am thinking as well Geoff_B, there just isn’t something available for sale or lease that has the features required. The main issue is lack of hanger on anything available! I have spent significant time looking myself and aside from the less then ideal Polarbjorn there just isn’t anything even close to suitable.

So I think lease Polarbjorn without a name change for three years and go without a helicopter flight. Then look at a deep (as in totally gut her) refit of Endurance. That means they can install systems and plant more in keeping with the training of the crew, sort out the accomodation that was always a problem and install some decent air conditioning so she can transit south far easier.

Apparently according to comments on Rumration the process of sending her back to the UK through warmer climes was causing serious wear to her machinary not to say deep uncomfort for her crew!

HMS Protector just a Stop Gap for now

Update on the Protector news and it is going to be the Polarbjorn.

http://www.navynews.co.uk/news/1122-new-antarctic-patrol-ship-announced.aspx

However they say its a 3 year lease and the future of Endurance is still under debate.

My thinking is that they couldn’t find a suitable long term solution off the shelf in terms of available Icebreakers with the size and capability they require so will settle for a short term solution whilst they have a rethink and see what money they have to play with. Given the 3 year lease they will either decide to put up and make do with Protector or bite the bullet and start the Endurance refit during this period as i rather doubt they could fund a new vessel to replace both.

Protector could have them scratching their heads a bit as the flight deck is as per Dilligence a platform above the accomodation block and they really want hanger & flight deck for their Lynx :confused:

Lot of open space aft on that ship that can be reconfigured.

Still I would rather a new builf for the UK then the less then ideal Polar Bjorn.

Yes, but if wishes were horses…

In reality, the choice is “the less then ideal Polar Bjorn”* or nothing!

* Or another second-hand “less then ideal” ship.

True I forgot that!

Still I would rather a new builf for the UK then the less then ideal Polar Bjorn.