Future Of RAF Museum?

I have on gate gaurds uks website something saying they are building a hurricane & spitfire for them

I have on gate gaurds uks website something saying they are building a hurricane & spitfire for them

Which website are you talking about please? I would think it highly unlikely that a Hurricane and Spitfire are heading to Hendon, they have several already!

Why, when talking about preserving large aircraft (such as the Nimrod), does everyone seem to assume it has to be put back into one piece straightaway?

Why can’t the RAFMuseum create a (relatively) inexpensive deep-store facility where Nimrod, Hercules, VC-10, Chinook, etc. can be stored safely indoors in a dismantled state until such time as the funds might become available to put them on display.

It must surely be possible to find an existing hangar (on a site with a long-term future!) that could be insulated, sealed and given a modicum of climate clontrol to reduce deterioration.

Roger Smith.

Because that is far too sensible!

Which website are you talking about please? I would think it highly unlikely that a Hurricane and Spitfire are heading to Hendon, they have several already!

Hendon

From – http://www.gateguardsuk.com/work-in-progress.html

“After a meeting with the RAF Museum at Cosford, work will start over the next few months on a Mk5b Spitfire & a Mk2 Hurricane to be positioned outside the main visitors building and reception area.”

From – http://www.gateguardsuk.com/work-in-progress.html

“After a meeting with the RAF Museum at Cosford, work will start over the next few months on a Mk5b Spitfire & a Mk2 Hurricane to be positioned outside the main visitors building and reception area.”

I was going to say Hendon has just had theirs restored so it cant be for them.

Did Hendon get their Jaguar yet as well i have not been in a while probably need to though.

curlyboy

IMHO Hendon should not receive any new aircraft, at the present time it appears to under manned and under financed.

I recently paid a visit to the museum and was dismayed by how much of the place was off limits, all the galleries were shut in the old part of the museum, the upper level in the Battle of Britain Hall was closed, as was the Short Sunderland walk through, The WW1 hangar was still open from 10-12 only.

Other areas that need attention are the appalling lighting in the Battle of Britain hall even though they now seem to have LED lights in operation.

Over a year ago I noticed the Dakota nose stuck on its end in Bomber Command Hall awaiting repositioning, its still there! There is also a Saro Skeeter in the same hall, Why? Was the Skeeter part of Bomber Command.

Other gripes include; The superb FE2B; Which is sat by the rear access doors almost in the dark, this is a magnificent new exhibit, it just seems a waste of everyone’s efforts to have it left in semi darkness tucked around the roof support columns. Heaven knows where there going to position the Sopwith Dolphin and LVG when they eventually arrive.

I could go on, but to me Hendon is in need of a serious rethink, before any new exhibits are delivered.

Septic.

…but Hendon has had these kinds of problems for YEARS.

…but Hendon has had these kinds of problems for YEARS.

yes and is quite happy to keep digging the hole it found itself in.

What i mean by this is recently they glazed the BofB hall but did this to the end with good illumination not the end where many unique WW2 airframes sit in the dark in a old exhibit that no one watches anymore.

Definately time for a major rethink at Hendon as it seems odd that Cosford is great well staffed and well laid out where Hendon which is supposedly the ‘flagship’ site is going down like the Titanic.

curlyboy

Why, when talking about preserving large aircraft (such as the Nimrod), does everyone seem to assume it has to be put back into one piece straightaway?

Why can’t the RAFMuseum create a (relatively) inexpensive deep-store facility where Nimrod, Hercules, VC-10, Chinook, etc. can be stored safely indoors in a dismantled state until such time as the funds might become available to put them on display.

It must surely be possible to find an existing hangar (on a site with a long-term future!) that could be insulated, sealed and given a modicum of climate clontrol to reduce deterioration.

Roger Smith.

I guess the reason why they don’t do this is that they’d need a large building which would have to be maintained, climate-controlled, insulated, etc; and which, crucially, wouldn’t draw in any revenue. It’s cheaper for them to have a Nimrod decaying away gradually outside for 20 years and eventually being turned into pots and pans as long as people can pay to come and look at it.

Am I being too cynical?

…but Hendon has had these kinds of problems for YEARS.

I agree, but it’s not right that a National Museum should continue on this path indefinitely, the management team should be accountable for the decisions they take.

To me the whole place needs a fresh approach, for instance; an events diary that would encourage repeat visits over the year, some designed for the family and some for enthusiasts. It could be as simple as turning the lights on in the Battle of Britain hall or having talks relating to particular aircraft or conflicts etc.

I just feel that these days that the museum feels unloved, the staff although helpful are not in the main interested in aviation and it shows. When I first visited Hendon in the early 80’s there was always a few veterans around walking the halls, they were there because they wanted to be there. Today the majority of the staff are there because there paid to be there.

A good comparison to Hendon is the USAF museum at Dayton, they have a large volunteer team, that help with all manner of tasks, from behind the scenes tours to keeping a watchful eye on the aircraft, when I was there in 2007 they even manned the information desk. The whole museum had a vibrancy about it, there was even a cinema showing various Imax films throughout the day if you had enough of walking around the aircraft and galleries and magnificent memorial gardens.

The team that run the RAFM should be made to visit other National Aviation Collections to see for themselves how poorly RAFM Hendon compares in 2010.

Septic.

The only way you will get to see and appreciate old aeroplanes in the future in the UK is within a self financing institution, get ready to donate guys …..welcome to het real C21st

Chris,

I would be more than willing to pay to get into RAFM Hendon, if it meant that they could reopen the Galleries, turn the lights on and keep the CGW hangar open all day.

BTW. On a positive note, just down the road from the Museum is the new Beaufort pub, although a bit pricey the food was really good and far better than the over priced stuff the museum sells.

Septic.

Where in the govt. food chain of expenditure do you think museums rate as opposed to NHS, Benefits, Law and Order? What do you think the current weather is costing us in cold weather benefits, where does this money come from?

Binning the Olympics? It’s a two week waste of space that’s quickly forgotten, on the other hand once an artifact (aircraft) is scrapped it’s gone forever

Why, when talking about preserving large aircraft (such as the Nimrod), does everyone seem to assume it has to be put back into one piece straightaway?

Why can’t the RAFMuseum create a (relatively) inexpensive deep-store facility where Nimrod, Hercules, VC-10, Chinook, etc. can be stored safely indoors in a dismantled state until such time as the funds might become available to put them on display.

It must surely be possible to find an existing hangar (on a site with a long-term future!) that could be insulated, sealed and given a modicum of climate clontrol to reduce deterioration.

Roger Smith.

Such a facility already exists at Cosford. The RAF Museum ‘deep Store’ over the far side and housed in one of the grassed over ‘Lamella’ hangars has been refurbished and fitted with the same aircon / dehumidifier system as that fitted to the storage hangars at RAF Shawbury. Having had the privilege of visiting this in the past, it already has a number of dismantled aircraft stored within and although the layout is somewhat haphazard could be re-organised to fit a Nimrod sized aircraft. The alternative is to store it at Shawbury of course…

Binning the Olympics? It’s a two week waste of space that’s quickly forgotten, on the other hand once an artifact (aircraft) is scrapped it’s gone forever

Withdraw the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and end wars there that should never have been started. Perhaps the savings from all these unneccesary expenditures will allow all these issues at home to be addressed, including funding the NHS, maintaining our museums and being able to cope in adverse weather by providing funds for our local authorities to purchase enough grit and salt for our roads! We have enough cost-cutting issues at home and the poor management at Hendon is the tip of the iceberg!

Now I’ll get off my soapbox! :rolleyes:

Expectations of expansion and improved facilities is not likely to be the policy of the next few years

But this in itself is only your best supposition….ie; you don’t actually know, it’s only your guess work………….or do you actually know different, you seem to be debating in an almost authortative tone so that you’d have us believe your argument was actualy correct?

unless anyone has evidence to the contrary?

Funny you should ask!!!
Only last weekend, in talking to a number of the different staff there, it seems that the museum has big progress ambitions in their sights, exactly opposed to what you are stating.
I did not ask for timescales etc, but they are planning on building what sounded like a very large building immediately in front of the existing main museum facade on the grassy area.
I was told that they are already trying to secure funding for the project.
This was much to the consternation of some of the staff who I gleaned from my conversations, would seem to like someone outside of the museum, to take it on board to object on planning grounds, on the basis that this well known and established view of the facade, should itself be protected from obstruction and this seems fair comment.
One indicated that the size of the building was so big that it sounded far bigger than it ought to be, whilst another indicated that the existing BofB museum would be demolished to help make way for the new building.

Now it may be probable that there are exaggerations about exatcly what is happening, but the discussions very magmanomously told me that this is the next direction for the museum.

Oh and don’t forget, the old watch tower is due for relocation next to the GWH in due course.
It looks like the ground is being prepared for it now.
I understand this move is being largely funded by the developer of the area, but it does demonstrate that there is still a commitment from the museum for improvements and expansion that you intimate is not a policy of the museum for the forseeable future.

Bomberboy

Do not forget also there is still another listed Grahame-White building of quite a large footprint that ‘could’ be reconstructed – or use the facade/entrance to put a modern building up behind. That would also get the developer out of a bind and free up a load more space for flats etc.

Using that for anything pre-1939-ish would free space for other things. I’m not holding my breath though!

What’s the other GW listed building?

The 1917 built Officers Mess down the road would make nice offices – aside from the staircase and one of the inside rooms most of it has been completely gutted for (very poor quality, I should know) student accomodation

Dont think the relocation for the Old GW watch tower has had much to do with the RAF museum. The original GW hangar and watch tower had to be moved as part of the site developement consent. Most of the funding for their relocation will have come from the developer and maybe some grant aid from various preservation funds, the only RAFM money will have been to improve public access and and climate control systems, which was not cheap and caused much delay to the original openning.

Any future expansion at Hendon will most likely have to be self funding ie by imposing an admission charge. Whilst I do not object to such a charge, I feel that the charge should not be so high as to put off regular and repeat visitors. If I am in London on business, and time allows, I will happily hop the a tube and spend maybe as little as an hour at Hendon, but a charge, say, in excess of £6 would put me off.

Some USA museums seem to have a system where there is a modest charge to enter the museum, but an addition charge for guided tours of restoration workshops / storage areas. An excellent idea for some where like Cosford or FAA.

Last year a planned visit to Duxford was cancelled because although my friend wanted to visit, our respective partners would have expected to have joined us. The excessive admission price (£16+ ?) proved to much. therefor nobody visited, had admission been lower say £8 the income that day would have been over £30 plus purchases from shop / cafe. Same applies to cafe prices like £2.50 for a coffee, forget it!! If price was £1.25 then £5 is spent plus extras like cake / sandwich etc.

Museum administrators need to think long and hard before imposing high admission charges, keep it simple, avoid complex special offers, family tickets and concessions, keep it cheap, maybe offer ‘second visit free’ (something the FAA Museum does / did I think ?)