Future of the Dutch JSS

Netherlands reverses Karel Doorman decision

http://www.janes.com/article/28960/netherlands-reverses-karel-doorman-decision

Indeed, as I indicated.

Netherlands reverses Karel Doorman decision

http://www.janes.com/article/28960/netherlands-reverses-karel-doorman-decision

The comparison of amphibious ships was not really irrelevant. Some (e.g. the British Bay class, mentioned in this context) are primarily transports, not meant for amphibious assault, the dock being used for unloading in the absence of port facilities, & it is not unknown for such ships to be equipped for & tasked with RAS of other vessels. Karel Doorman would fill the transport role, as well as RAS – if the decision hadn’t been reversed.

And a good thing too. The navy must have convinced politicians that once the cost of a new, cheaper support ship was taken into account, & any transitional arrangements until it could enter service (extending Amsterdam, for example), it was unlikely there’d be a worthwhile (or any) savings. I doubt KD could have been sold for anything like her building cost.

While the Makassar class is undoubtedly cheap, IIRC the $150m contract price was the payment to Daewoo, not the total cost. I’ve heard, though can’t verify it, that weapons were extra, & it didn’t include the local costs of the two built in Indonesia.

Good ships for a tight budget, but not top drawer. Sensible for Peru, which has just started building two. Chile might prefer Siroco, when she comes on the market, so as to have a matching pair with Foudre (now LSDH-91 Sargento Aldea), which the Armada is reported to be content with, & I’m pretty sure the Brazilian navy would like something a bit more up-market, if possible.

Agree with Stan that Australia doesn’t want KD. The RAN has Choules for transport, & would probably want a couple of dedicated support ships of one type. Also agree re Canada. Fits the stated requirement well, but doesn’t fit the policy of propping up commercially failed shipyards regardless of cost to the military budget.

These are comparisons with LPDs, which the JSS is not. It is an AOR with a cargo/transport/seabaing capability: it does not have a docking well. Besides:

In September, 2013, it was announced that as part of a series of Dutch defense budget cuts, the vessel wouldn’t enter military service [1][3], but this decision has been reversed by the Dutch government. The vessel will get in service when it is completed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karel_Doorman_class_support_ship

Joint logistic Support Ship will replace in 2015 Hr. Ms. Zuiderkruis, which was decommed in 2012 and Zr. Ms. Amsterdam which will decom in 2014 (i.e. without the JSS the Dutch navy would be left without RAS capability, which is unthinkable)

http://www.marineschepen.nl/marschepen/jss.html

good news!

NOS radio news (3FM) just reported that additional funding has been secured. Amongst others this means the JSS will not be sold. On top of that the Johan Willem Friso barracks will stay open, the marines detachment in Aruba will stay and there will be 1.400 fewer redundancies then earlier announced.

http://nos.nl/artikel/566915-defensie-schrapt-minder-banen.html

But if we were seriously looking for replacements for either of those right now we could have just converted Largs Bay instead of flogging her off to save a few quid.

Exactly. That would have been much cheaper, & been easier & cheaper to support & operate, because of commonality.

Seems like the folks in The Hague are trying to find some budget to keep the ship. Unfortunately I can’t find a better source then the Telegraaf (link):

THE HAGUE – Coalition parties VVD and PvdA are looking at ways to avoid having to put the Karel Doorman up for sale. One possible solution would be to use the vessel to guard the European outer borders against illegal immigration and human trafficking.

For what it’s worth, an article from the Algemeen Dagblad (link) mentions that political party D66 would also like to keep the ship, but does not mention anything from the VVD nor the PvdA. The D66 proposal is a bit in the air (but then again, it is D66) saying that in cooperation with other European countries it should be possible to retain the ship. They say that: “scrapping (selling) is the simple solution and would not deliver the required results”.

If the Karel Doorman were to be sold it would mean a write-off of 250 million euros. The expected annual saving is 20 million. However, a (presumably smaller and cheaper) replacement vessel will still be required.

But if we were seriously looking for replacements for either of those right now we could have just converted Largs Bay instead of flogging her off to save a few quid.

It could be a good move for Russia to go along side the new Mistral class in the Pacific Fleet

yes it would. maybe the Dilligance too… but i feel that it would be bought at the sacrafice of one of the MARS SSS. Also who else could afforad her? THe Philippines maybe as the crown jewel of their planned new navy?

Would make a great multi-role replacement for Argus :dev2: :dev2: :dev2: :dev2:

While the Makassar class is undoubtedly cheap, IIRC the $150m contract price was the payment to Daewoo, not the total cost. I’ve heard, though can’t verify it, that weapons were extra, & it didn’t include the local costs of the two built in Indonesia.

Good ships for a tight budget, but not top drawer. Sensible for Peru, which has just started building two. Chile might prefer Siroco, when she comes on the market, so as to have a matching pair with Foudre (now LSDH-91 Sargento Aldea), which the Armada is reported to be content with, & I’m pretty sure the Brazilian navy would like something a bit more up-market, if possible.

Agree with Stan that Australia doesn’t want KD. The RAN has Choules for transport, & would probably want a couple of dedicated support ships of one type. Also agree re Canada. Fits the stated requirement well, but doesn’t fit the policy of propping up commercially failed shipyards regardless of cost to the military budget.

The Indonesians have got 4 Makassar Class ships which cost them 150 million US or 37.5 Million US each add to this that Peru is now building two more ships of this class I think that Brazil and Chile would be better off building Makassar class ship in they home ship yards
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So now that it appears the Karel Doorman will not be commissioned, but sold off; who should/could buy her? Also would be better to cease any further fitting now and let the potential buyer choose further systems such as sensors and electronics? I feel Canada and Australia are the most likely sfor this ship, but I could also see it being very useful for the Thai’s, Indonesians, Malaysians, Brazillians, and Chile.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karel_Doorman_class_support_ship

Well it would solve a lot of issues for Canada, but buying something like the Doorman will highlight just how stupid the price is they are willing to pay for their new replenishment ships.

I don’t think the RAN will want her. I see your point about the other countries but I think you miss a really interesting country off that list – Vietnam.

Vietnam already has 2 Dutch built Sigmas on order and with a coast line like theirs and China on your doorstep, this could be a very useful ship and could be the beginnings of a Green water navy.

Just my 2 cents