Fw190s in Uk

Graeme – This’Heinkel’ left Spain as a CASA 2-111 for use in the filming of cockpit and fuselage shots for the ‘Battle of Britain’.
Not unsurprisingly since it left the ownership of Colin Waterworth it has been in Austria and acquired some more genuine Heinkel parts to add to the project.

Wow

One active post! Not spiralled out of control either and very entertaining reading. One of the reasons I like this forum.

Hi Graeme – you’ve got most of the regular contributers in this post – you’ll be reading alot more from them!

Snapper – you and that ol’ Typhoon 😀

hehe i duno when i will be next at Duxford moggy,but when i am what is it lager or bitter? lol

davem2 thanks for answering the post,what a shame, that guy should never be able to get his hands on a aircraft again. i think if the OFMC need a new build fuselage they should look in the direction of flug werk.

lol sorry RNHF instead of RNAF on my previous post. Yeah i could imagine a sunderland flanked by swordfishs!

Anyone here that the He 111P-2 5883 in Austria is up for sale, it is hope that a restoration to at least static is possible, this is great, i would like to see he 111 trying to get away from alot of hurricanes!

thanks
Graeme

I didn’t realise that the Mossie was no longer airworthy. It’s often hard to tell with ‘airworthy’ aeroplanes that haven’t flown for a while.

Having just been to the Champlin Fighter Museum in Arizona, it is interesting to speculate on how many aeroplanes there can actually be flown.
They all look in excelent condition and all have been flown in their current form, but how much time would it take to get them to fly now. There must be certain work carried out to preserve items which would sieze or perish on a flyer that is parked for several years. Engine inhibiting springs to mind.

So are they airworthy or not? (whichever, they’re still very nice).

Actually, does anyone out there know when any of them did last fly, particularly things like the Spitfire and P47?

Willow

Whoa…I should have put sniping in inverted commas it seems….tongue very much in cheek……:cool:

As for Kermit, he’s got great enthusiasm for the warbird movement. I met him many years ago at his old place at Timiami (spelling??) not long after the Mossie arrived, and had a good long chat, he was serving behind the counter in the museum shop at the time…:eek:

I did however voice my concern about the Mossie being kept for a prolonged period of time in such humid conditions, bearing mind the de-lamination problems suffered in service in the Far East.

He stated that he had plans for the future to allievate that, in terms of a climate controlled hanger. In hindsight, I suppose he was refering to the Polk City project, but, I was peeded off to hear years later that the Mossie was grounded because of de-lamination problems. Seems the move north to the EAA happened too late…..:mad:

Still, if anyone has the funds, and desire to sort it out KW has.

If the only person in the world who is prepared to pay to keep a Sunderland airworthy happens to live in Florida, then so be it.

At least with KW the Sunderland has a chance of flying again. There just isn’t the money availible in this country (or the weather) to maintain such a large aircraft.
Look at the trouble they have had raising the cash to keep Sally B flying, and a fair percentage of the population knows what ‘Memphis Belle’ is/was.
If the Sunderland had remained in the UK, it would probably be stuck on an airfield somewhere rotting away.

Kermit Weeks is OK by me. Having met him at Polk City, his enthusiasm for aviation is overpowering.

Willow

If you are suggesting that I was sniping at Graeme there may be some truth in that.

He is most welcome here and I genuinely do admire his zeal and enthusiasm. My issue was with his accuracy.

The Internet is a very powerful tool for communication, as such it brings some responsibilities with it. One of these is not to post inaccurate or misleading information which others then quote as fact.

The Sunderland thing was only an illustration, my real beef was with his imputation that OFMC had been in receivership.

OFMC is a commercial operation. Rumours of financial problems cause worry amongst suppliers and can, all too often (Though not I’m sure in this case), lead to real financial problems.

Let’s keep this a board for sensible discussions, not wild speculation, unfounded rumours and unsubstantiated ‘facts’

But if I came over as harsh I apologise fully and unreservedly. Graeme can buy me two or three pints at Duxford to show that I have no hard feelings.

Moggy

See…….after all the sidetracking and sniping, the answer was eventually forthcoming………:p

Well done Dave……:D 😀

N.Z. 190s

Graeme

I took the photo at Wanaka 96 when the company bought down the new build fuselage , and some original parts to display at the airshow.
It is a VERY long story as to what happened …..short version is the manager Peter Ahrens , a Swedish national ,mis appropriated funds intended to build several 190s , including one for the Alpine Fighter Collection and one for OFMC . Both those collections were concerned at lack of progress , and eventually the Police were called to investigate , they found another type of aircraft being built secretly on the second floor of the hangar.
Ahrens was deported to the U.S. where the FBI were waiting to question him about a hangar fire , that destroyed a 190 and burned the hangar to the ground.
I saw the OFMC wreck in storage before an auction was held to sell off all remaining original parts at Wigram , Christchurch.
There were complete , battered wings and sundry parts . I am not certain , but I believe these went back to the U.K.
As for the new build fuselage , it was built to the wrong dimensions , the inspectors also found the workmanship to be sub standard . Consequently it was useless.

regards
Dave

Hang on. It seems that we are all jumping on Graeme over little things. This is not us. We aren’t on the AW board you know.

Graeme, Welcome. We are nice people here really. If you are at Duxford on sunday, come say hi, we’re having (perhaps) a picnic around 1230-ish by the flypast tent. anyways, like I said, welcome to our clan.

Mark.

(let the squabbling recommence, with pinches of salt thrown by the audience for taking by participants).

Originally posted by Graeme C
i mean the sunderland should of been bought by the RNAF, to represent the aircrew that flew the craft during the convoy wars.

Graeme.

Your enthusiasm for the restoration of defunct types and your campaigning zeal are really admirable.

But you are a tad sloppy with your facts and obvious inaccuracies do tend to take away from the weight of what you have to say.

What in heavens name is/was the RNAF?

Are we talking about Free Norwegian pilots or what?

I think you will find most Sunderlands were operated by the Royal Air Force (RAF), largely in Coastal Command.

Moggy

I want to see formations of:

Typhoon (car door 3 blade) Typhoon (Teardrop 4 blade) and Tempest V.

Bf109, Fw190, Bf110,

Ju87, Ju88, He111

Stirling, Wellington, Lancaster, Hampden, Halifax

Zero, Oscar, Betty

Yak 3, Mig 3, Lagg 3, IL2

Mosquito, Beaufighter, Blenheim

Fancy my chances? If I was to name one aircraft to see fly, it would be a Hawker Typhoon. Not in my lifetime.

I believe all the Hunters were acquired by Mark as he intended to put together a display team. This was around 1998 before the Breitling Fighters were formed.
However with Mark’s sad death they all were gradually mothballed and went into storage at Scampton.

Some are now gradually coming out of hibernation with Hawker Hunter Aviation.

HTH

M

i like the beaufighter to, the main reason i go to flying legends every year is to check the process of the beaufighter. I think that will be the best plane on the airshow circuit when shes airworthy!!. what is your wishlist of flying aircraft, how about a Me110?

In principle, yes I agree – we SHOULD have these aircraft flying as memorials to the crews who fought and died in them. But the practicalities are such that it won’t happen. You’ve summed it up with your own comment “There isnt enough money in the heritage side of aircraft in the UK.” TFC and OFMC are widely reknowned as the best and most capable warbird operators this side of the Atlantic, but neither organisation has bottomless pockets, and neither do Paul Allen or Kermit Weeks at the moment.

We all have our dreams, our wishlists of aircraft we’d love to see flying in our lifetime. Lots of the other forum members will tell you my wish is to see a certain Beaufighter take to the air one day, and much as I’d love to see it fly here, I really wouldn’t complain in the slightest if she were eventually to have her first flight in another country. The thing that matters to me is that she flies.

Oh, and as for FW190’s, no idea mate. Not enough engines for me to be interested. 😀

We always get sidetracked. Thats our charm. If EN830 were here with me, we would be REALLY sidetracked by now, believe me.

So stuff goes abroad? Appreciate what stays then. Nobody OWES us a warbird in the sky. NOBODY.

steveyoung how about the Lysandler that he owns? that is on display? and we r not gona have a b25 for much longer as it is up for sale.

But if you are from the Uk you must agree that you would prefer to see the aircraft here, than in the states, if the company will restore and fly it ok. But what i mean is we need a another company like WOGB or TFC to operate aircraft here. There isnt enoth money in the heritage side of aircraft in the UK. If there is it goes to museums. There should be like money going towards having a flying mossie, or a halifax. i mean the sunderland should of been bought by the RNAF, to represent the aircrew that flew the craft during the convoy wars.
There needs to be more money but into our history with planes, – think we should have these aircraft flying in testoment to the crews that fought and died flying these planes.

But does any1 know about the FW190? were getting sidetracked with kermit.

Wish he hadn’t taken KB976 though!

Kermit plays his part in keeping these old aircraft alive, and I for one take my hat off to the bloke. The aircraft preservation world needs folk like him, and if it means aircraft leavimg these shores to U.S.A., well, at least they’ll have their chance. Better than mouldering in the corner of a windswept airfield.

Originally posted by Graeme C
Kermit weeks has taken alot of aircraft out of the Uk, which should be here. Like the Sunderland, mossie, lancaster, and soon the tempest. I just wish he and paul allen would have a European wing based in Britain. but yeah back to the subject of fw190s

When the Sunderland was offered for sale, no UK organisation or individual was interested.

The Mosquito was bought as a flyer, and has been displayed indoors at EAA Oshkosh for at least the last ten years, where she is safe from the elements.

The Lancaster (KB994 / KB976, take your pick) was also going absolutely nowhere fast when Kermit bought her. I understand she’s in the queue for airworthy restoration.

The Tempest, if it ever flies, will be a fantastic testament to a) Mr Weeks’s determination to preserve vintage aircraft in airworthy condition, and b) the restoration skills of PPS, who have been contracted to restore her.

And before we start slagging off Kermit Weeks and Paul Allen for “stealing our aircraft”, let’s just consider the P51’s, F4’s, P40’s, B17, B25, A26, etc which are currently airworthy over here. :rolleyes: