GAL Hotspur MkI Glider colours.

Interesting thought actually…

That said, if they were, would the overall shade not be close to the yellow outer ring of the fuselage roundel in b&w drawings. I know some became all yellow after the war.

I’m starting to think they were camo and just the filters/film of the time makes it hard to distinguish the different shades.

Is it possible the first prototypes were all over yellow? The prototype Mosquito was and both first flew in the same month.

JT442, Fatcivvy, et. al.

Thanks for the input it’s appreciated but we’ve strayed a little from the original question. 🙂

There were 24 MkI’s built and most at least would of had the standard camouflage pattern as defined by the RAF.

My original question pertains to the 4 prototypes, names BV134, BV135, BV136 and BV199.

To recap, I’ve not seen a picture of BV134 or BV135 but the well published pictures of BV136 seem to show it in a single overall colour. Despite looking at various images and angles I cannot make out any demarcation lines. One picture I have does show BV136 with yellow/black underside stripes but looking at it from two different sides it still doesn’t seem to have any camo.

I’m starting to think it must have and that there is some sort of filter going on with the camera that’s masking it.

I’ve just had a look at Air Britain’s Royal Air force Aircraft – BA100 to BZ999 and there’s some pictures of Hotspurs in there – including a Mk.I, BV138. It’s a three-quarters rear view but I’m sure fairly that I can just make out the colouring under the rear fuselage which looks like it’s yellow with diagonal black stripes. All of the pictures showed them with green and brown upper surfaces albeit some of the demarcation lines being a little indistinct because of the photographs.

I also remember there was an article about the Hotspur in Aeroplane Monthly sometime in the mid to late seventies with a three-view. Sorry I can’t be more specific as I can’t get at my copy.

I hope this helps.

FC

I can see clear camoflage lines in the pictures in posts 1 and 3. I see no reason to suspect they were a single colour.

Post #1: look at the fin/rudder.

post #3 close up: runs through the ‘f’ in ‘unsafe’, also another on the wing

Again – MkII’s. From the Glider Pilot exercise unit at Netheravon I believe. You can tell by the Pegasus insignia and the red letter behind the roundel. 🙂

I don’t think we’ll ever clear this mystery up. :confused:

A couple images from ” The Royal Air Force of World War Rwo in Colour ” by Roger A. Freeman.

Phillip, sadly those are all MkII Hotspurs and not MkI’s. They naturally would of been camouflaged as they are shown at their operational units.

However, I’m starting to form a theory here…

Could it be that MkI’s that left the factories and went straight to evaluation or testing units were never camouflaged? It seems to be consistent that the pictures we’re referring to show either MkI’s that are identifiable by serial and known to of been used for trials or are shown in some sort of testing/demonstration context.

Question is – at what stage would an aircraft usually be painted? I know that some Hotspurs were assembled at Hullavington and Little Rissington before being delivered to their units. Would they of been painted there or at the factories?

Found this too: http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/76657878/Hulton-Archive and http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/78962488/Popperfoto

Found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_airborne_operations_in_North_Africa

There is also a colour photograph in “The Hamlyn Concise Guide to British Aircraft of World War II”

Thanks for that Peter. I meant to drop you an email about your site actually. 🙂

GAL Hotspur MkI Glider colours

This is the only photo in my collection which shows a two-tone camouflage on a Mk1. As it was taken in April 1941 at Thame we can assume it was one of the first built, possibly BV140 as there are others in the ‘set’ of that one.
All the others photos are indistinct and could suggest a single tone on the upper surface.

Peter
www.haddenhamairfieldhistory.co.uk

I was going to say is that at Ringway? I think the Whitley and Stirling gave it away 🙂

Well, that could be BV-134 as it was send to the CLE. ’35 stayed with the factory and ’36 went to the RAE. I think ‘199 was at CLE as well eventually but I’ve never see it with a MkII hood.

Then again, the CLE/AFEE were allocated at least another 5 MkII’s for other tests and some of those required some quite severe modification that might of warranted slapping a prototype-P on the side. Not sure what the rules are for when one must be shown.

But yes, would be nice to check the original and get the serial off it.

I may have to go and take a close look at the original of this to try and confirm the serial, but is this BV134?
[ATTACH]192889[/ATTACH]
Prototype ‘P’ marked Hotspur II at CLE Ringway

OneEighthBit Do you have any photos of the early MkII ie with the rear of the MkI canopy cutaway so that the rear pilot can see ahead. Its this version that can be seen on the you tube clip. Its also this version that the Museum at Wallop has the original modification drawing for, but I’ve never seen a good still photo of it.

Hmm this MkI is a bit of a mystery. I’ve gone through the hundreds of Hotpsur pictures I have an it seems to be consistently MkI’s BV-136 and BV-199 that show no sign of a camouflage pattern.

I’ve looked at additional pictures of BV-136 much larger and from all angles and 12 shots of BV-199 in flight and cannot make out in any picutre and sign of either camouflage or the yellow or yellow/black underside.

Another thing I’ve noticed – apart from the Twin Hotspur and one of the gliders used for the ditching trials (BT771 I believe) I’ve never seen any other Hotspur with a prototype circled ‘P’ on the side.

BV-134,135,136 & BV-199 were all prototypes and while I’ve never seen a picture of ’34 or ’35 I’m wondering if any of them ever carried the circle-P or camouflage.

There are a few colour photos of Hotspur’s, but they are Mk2 or 3. I have never seen a colour photo of a Mk1 though.

Dave

At least one colour photo of Hotspurs exists, and shows them wearing a dark green and earth upper scheme. Can’t remember where I have seen the photo, but possibly it was in one of Charles Brown’s books.

I tried hard to find a shot that showed that (possibly) showed a demmarkation between the uppersurface colours and this was the only one. Also I’ve tried not to convince myself that I can see a very soft edged demarkation on the close-up shot, but I wouldn’t put money on it. The obvious colour change is on the removeable fuselage top but I assume that’s down to a subtly different surface finish reflecting the light differently.

Thanks all.

It is puzzling and as you say, hard to determine from B&W photos. I’ve looked at a bigger picture of BV136 and I cannot for life of me, even fiddling with levels in Photoshop, seem to reveal any demarcation of different colours. Same thing with a shot I have of BV199 which is taken in very good light. For some reason those two particular gliders in whatever light seem to be one solid colour.

In the first of Aeronut’s attachment it appears to be camoflauged but not to the AM paint spec drawn out for the MkI!

look at the top photo,

definitely two tone scheme:)