German Type 122 Bremen Frigate upgrades?

Thats the point I made! Its not a CIWS system but with RAM it would offer a useful level of defence.

Its not a manned mount but remote control. Good for close-in work against small surface targets and overflying jets (Argy/Falkland style)

Niedersachsen, Karlsruhe and Bremen temporarily fitted with 1 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS from 1991 to 1993, all other units also had provisions for Goalkeeper.

Since the RAM system took so long to materialize, these ships spent the whole 1980s without a point defense system, but could have been fitted with the british/dutch Goalkeeper system if necessary. Only 3 ships ever carried Goalkeeper for a potential Persian Gulf deployment in 1991. RAM finally arrived in 1993, giving these ships a very good point defense system.

http://www.harpoonhq.com/encyclopedia/HTML_Files/Germany.html

Ab Frühjahr 1991 wurden aufgrund des Golfkrieges drei Einheiten (zeitweise) mit dem niederländischen Nahbereichsabwehrsystem GOALKEEPER ausgerüstet: NIEDERSACHSEN, KARLSRUHE, und BREMEN. Ab Mai 1993 Beginn der Aus- / Nachrüstung mit dem RAM-Waffensystem, das die NIEDERSACHSEN als erstes Schiff erhielt.
http://www.richardstokowski.de/fregatte.htm

excusez moi, post double

I think people are confusing my meaning, whilst its not much use against missiles it would be handy against aircraft that have leaked past missile systems.

Much the same reason why the RN fitted all that 20mm stuff on her ships after the Falklands.

I think the MLG 27 is more of a close defence weapon, not a CIWS, i.e. it is intended to deal with small craft, not incoming missiles. Note the absence of a fire control system, other than the person manning the mount!

Hi
I’ve done some research on the web about the MLG 27 gun and “()….the gun is coupled to an effective fire control system from STN Atlas Elektronik. The thermal imager sensors, the TV camera, laser range finder and automatic target tracking system with a proven video tracker ensure rapid and reliable target acquisition, tracking and engagement. Target tracking, fire control computation as well as gun control are done from a remote operator console….()”

check the complete link:
http://defence-data.com/dsei/pageds1038.htm

Ayala

Thats the point I made! Its not a CIWS system but with RAM it would offer a useful level of defence.

Can’t see how mate, the guy would be commiting suicide being there when he blasts the missile to bits and the pieces hit him.

Ed is right, it’s more for the threat of small boats like what happened to the Cole. The German Navy has been out stretching it’s legs again and deploying to Africa (IIRC 2002 World tour was the first time since WWII, I have the screen savers and such of that deployment). Since they are going into areas known for these type of attacks, it is silly not to have a form of defence against them- sort of like the USN Ships of early WWII having massive guns to counter the IJN ships but nothing much to stop the new threat of air attack, look at what happened there!

These days I can say that when the USN is in a hostile port, all the .50cals are manned and guards are also manned with M-60’s, the cole incident will never be repeated anytime soon!

I think the MLG 27 is more of a close defence weapon, not a CIWS, i.e. it is intended to deal with small craft, not incoming missiles. Note the absence of a fire control system, other than the person manning the mount!

Thats the point I made! Its not a CIWS system but with RAM it would offer a useful level of defence.

I think the MLG 27 is more of a close defence weapon, not a CIWS, i.e. it is intended to deal with small craft, not incoming missiles. Note the absence of a fire control system, other than the person manning the mount!

Goalkeeper for the German navy is surprising considering they use RAM and they have started to fit the Rheinmetal MLG 27 to their vessels.

I know MLG 27 isn’t exactly like Goalkeeper but combined with RAM it allows for quite a comprehensive close in defence capability.

I did a bit of checking and I at least found a pic of the new radar on FGS Köln, just ahead of the two RAM launchers.

Also found this on www.findarticles.com:

The German Navy’s eight Type 122 Bremen-class frigates also are scheduled to have an AAW upgrade. Their Signaal DA-08 radars will be replaced by DASA’s new TRS-3D system, and their AN/UYK-7 computers will be replaced by AN/UYK-43s.

As for the Goalkeeper, I found this:
Global Security.org it mentions the goalkeeper, perhaps that was a fitted for but not with option and only now are the Germans putting them on. I did how ever, come across several mentions about the Type 122’s being similar to the Dutch Kortenaer class which is now being sold to countries like Chile, Indonesia, Greece and UAE

I found this also: Harpoon HQ it too mentions the Goalkeeper but only in a magazine form. Why have a mag for a weapon system if you don’t have the weapon? Again I reiterate that this is more a case of fitted for and not with, the simple fact that a mag exists for the weapon means it was either there and replaced by the RAM, or the RAM replaced the Goalkeeper!