Yes, it’s a really bizarre question!
Does anyone know which, if any, of the RAF’s glider tug aircraft in 1944/5 would have been capable of landing on a 1600 yard runway, and taking off again with an unloaded Horsa in tow?
I’m trying to find more about a mass-landing of gliders at RAF Great Sampford, and I’m fascinated as to how they got up to 120 Horsas away again. Was it possible to land Stirlings/Halifaxes (one of which I’ve found a reference to, the other my father recalls seeing) on a strip of that length – probably quite lightly laden with fuel, as some gliders were presumably returning to Rivenhall? Or did the RAF “snatch” gliders from the ground as the USAAF did?
I’ll try to post the briefing room pics, to see if anyone can identify the airfield on the board where (presumably) the briefing is being held – as the map on the table is definitely Great Sampford, I’m assuming that the map on the blackboard is a real airfield rather than a generic one for the press.
Any assistance would be gratefully received!
Adrian
By: adrian_gray - 24th December 2008 at 12:15
SteveB has very kindly sent me scans of the Aeromilitaria article.
It seems that the 120-plus aircraft is a slight exaggeration – none of the operations landed more than about 36 at Great Sampford – although in terms of total aircraft including tugs it’s not too far off for the rehearsals for the Rhine crossing. These included Hamilcars, but these were released over their home bases to avoid having to recover them. Slightly bizarrely, one Horsa intended for Great Sampford ended up at Hethel – heaven only knows how!
And – aeronut will be pleased to hear this – retrieval was by Dakotas of 5 Heavy Glider Servicing Unit’s Glider Rescue Pool.
Finally, it turns out that the airfield on the briefing board is Earl’s Colne – should have checked when I looked up Rivenhall, as they are only a couple of miles apart.
Thank you for the help – it’s much appreciated – and thank you to Pondskater for the reference for the ORB. Methinks a trip to Kew is called for…
Adrian
By: Pondskater - 23rd December 2008 at 21:16
I wonder if Hendon has the station ORB?
Adrian,
National Archives have that one. The reference is: AIR 28/294 (www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)
Happy searching
Allan
By: adrian_gray - 23rd December 2008 at 20:44
Blimey! You are right – that’s impressive!
Adrian
By: Arabella-Cox - 23rd December 2008 at 19:12
The Dakota used in the trial I quoted was loaded to 26 000 lb AUW and the Horsa was at an operational weight of 14 500 lb. So the take off distance is even more impressive.
By: adrian_gray - 23rd December 2008 at 15:32
Thank you very much for looking that up. With that length of take-off, especially if they faced into the prevailing wind, they’d be away and at a safe height long before they ran out of runway. I’m impressed by such a short run – I guess the Dakota is relatively light (fuel, but no cargo), and the glider provides its own lift? I wonder if Hendon has the station ORB? It would be interesting to find out which squadrons, and thus which aircraft, were involved. With 120 gliders used, I suspect that it might have been a wide range of tugs.
Adrian
By: Arabella-Cox - 22nd December 2008 at 18:20
The tug series of AFEE reports is the one area where my archive is lacking (but I’m working on it). However I do have a copy of T4 – Performance tests on Dakota I and Horsa (loaded) which gives the take off distance for the tug as 850 yards and a distance of 1750 yards to the 50 foot screen. These distances being the ones corrected to zero wind and standard atmosphere.
So in answer to your question I’d say that a 1600 yard runway would be adequate for a lightly loaded Horsa to be towed out.
By: adrian_gray - 22nd December 2008 at 17:47
These are the airfield that I resume the briefing is being held at – does anyone recognise it? It certainly isn’t Rivenhall, the one airfield I am reasonably certain provided gliders, as their runways were 04/22, 10/28 and 16/34. The one in the pic looks to be 12/30, 07/25 and 01/19 if that’s any help?
Adrian
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December 22, 2008 at 1:42 pm