Gomersal Halifax Crash

Halifax Crash

Hullo Cees
I was completely aware of someone having a tail stall event and we talked of the feel that may attend such. Overemphasis of that initial problem may have lessened the name of a good aeroplane.
Air Commodore Peter Cribb wrote the Preface to my first book, “Voice from the Stars a Pathfinders Story.” He was a 3 tour pilot and was responsible for the installation of the first airborne H2S radar into the 35-Squadron Halifaxes chosen to be first to fly radar into Europe. Of the tail stall on triangular tail models, he cites his flying back from the Ruhr with his 2 starboard Merlins damaged and shut down and having to use practically full left rudder to maintain direction. When he got tired he let the Halifax fly full circle then used his left leg again. You could do a lot with the Halifax
best wishes
Tom
www.writerspen.com.au

Hi Max,

Yes, I am a lucky man but don’t tell her;) I wil keep posting pics in the cockpit section thread. Don’t think there’s a best of which aircraft type. Pilot’s usually were glad to get back home in one piece. it’s impossible to compare aircraft types at any stage in time as mostly the development process is different. Some are more protracted than others.

Hi Tom,
Correct, some things are just like riding a bicycle don’t you think. Even after so many years you still can find you way blindfolded I think. The pilot’s seat is nearly finished so that the whole assembly can be fitted onto the pilot’s chassis. As far as I know the seat back was made from thick aluminium or steel to serve as armour as there was thick layered glass behind your head for protection. I will make it as authentic as I can.

While we are at it, Tom were you at the time aware of the rudder stall difficulty that plagued the Merlin Halifaxes fitted with the triangular rudders? Or was this information kept from the crews to avoid a lowering of morale?

Cheers

Cees

Cees,
You’ve got one hell of an understanding missus letting you construct your cockpit in your home. Mine won’t even let me bring a bag of nuts and bolts in ours – I have to put up with a cold,draughty garage!
As yourself, I have a ‘thing’ about the Halifax.
Through my father, I met a gentleman (sadly now deceased) who flew both Lancasters and Halifaxes with pathfinder squadrons and was adamant that the Halifax was the better of the two!
I hope you will post more images of your cockpit as it progresses.

Max

Halifax crash

Cees, You stretch my memory with that photo.
(Quote)You probably recognize this as you would have passed in on your way
towards the cockpit.

Cees, when I saw that photo the impression came,”I am passing the Flight Engineer’s office and am about to enter the flight deck and on the left is the pilots seat.” So Cees I am looking at the beginnings of the pilot’s seat?
Whatever, the pilot’s seat took on extra significance for me in WWII. My radio man and I were checking our Halifax after damage the previous night. His radio office was under the pilot’s feet. He came with a piece of flak in his hands. “I found this wedged under your seat ….” That stuff was so solid. I was glad the pilot’s seat included armour plating. I wonder if you will include armour plating in your Halifax cockpit?

Hi Tom.

The factory that I am on about,is a very recent addition to the area,but the company that I am currently attached to,bought it from new,and sold it within 2 years,at a very healthy profit,due to expansion.I should have made that clear in my original post,sorry about that.

Your story is a fascinating one,and I’m guessing the guys on here would love to know more,if you would care to divulge.

For me personally,the crash area is not too far away as well,from where I live,and when the weather gets a bit better here,I may take a trip over to look,providing that I don’t upset anyone who lives in the area.

I will also try to get some photographs as well,and you can then see if the area has changed much since that day.

Ken.

Halifax crash

Quinny thanks for your thoughtfulness.
You work for someone who had a factory 600 m from Drub Lane.
Is this a connection?
I recall 1943, Herb Umpleby ran a wire factory some distance from Drub Lane. He befriended me out of the crowd around the blazing wreck of the Halifax where exploding ammunition added entertainment to their Boxing Day holiday. Herb organised the police to give me a full piping hot bath which was all I wanted. Imagine the coal ration that went into that.
While in the bath Herb’s doctor came with beer glass full of yellow liquid. The whisky surely anaesthetised my crunched spine and bruises. Herb then kept me in fine form at his Hunsworth local: excellent preparation for a painful journey back to Base. I spent “leave” at Herb’s home later. He made sure I walked with him over the path of the crash because he wanted me to assuredly know I shouldn’t have survived. That was Herb.

I can’t believe what I’m reading on here,this is amazing.

I work as an agency driver,and am currently working for a customer,who had a factory about 600 metres from Drub Lane.Amongst the company employees,is a former RAF MP,who,like me,has an interest in some of the old WW2 aircraft.

I’m guessing that he doesn’t know about the above,but by this time tomorrow,he will.

Words cannot express my gratitude to the guys who did what they did,and the only thing I can really say to you Tom,is thank you.

I feel humbled in your presence on the forum.

Ken.

Tom Scotland, thank you so very much for all that you endured and all that you did through the war years so that we could enjoy living in a free country. I am so grateful to you and all the others who did the same and I don’t think we take the time to tell you often enough.

My grandfather was also a Halifax pilot but he died in March 1942. www.archieraf.co.uk

Take care 🙂
Linzee

Tom
Welcome to the forum. I hope you stick around.
The subject of the example in Hendon comes up on this forum from time to time-just wondering what your thoughts are as one who was there. Should it be left as is for all time or have the full treatment as per the Canadian example?

Tom,

You probably recognize this as you would have passed in on your way
towards the cockpit.

Cheers

Cees

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the valuable information you provide. This gives another view in the often one-sided opinions in books that most people take for granted and that are repeated over and over again.
Any story you wish to tell on this forum, feel free.
Cheers

Cees

Halifax crash

Cees
You ingenious man. The cockpit construction looks so good.
I understand Bomber Command’s gripe about the Halifax was that it was a low wing monoplane with a main spar constructed so that the bomb-bay was divided into two compartments. Thus it couldn’t carry the big bombs the Lancaster carried. There was a tail stall problem and underpower problem for a short time before the Lancaster came into the squadrons but as flying crews later on we did well with the Halifax.
The Halifax iii was a mighty aeoroplane. The Hercules engines made a tremendous improvement in performance over the Merlin. The Hercules engines continued to be improved and a later model of the Halifax I understand could fly further and faster and carry a larger load than its competitor.
My Oz friend the late FltLt Alan Forrester DFC loved the Halifax III and he missed its robustness and crew roominess over that of the Lancasters he went on fly with 35 Squadron Pathfinders. He thought the Halifax a higher quality machine.
You asked about Whitleys, yes again a solid aeroplane that I flew in training before I flew Halifaxes. If you get a chance read my book “Voice from the Stars” about Whitleys.
best wishes
Tom
Tom Scotland
www.writerspen.com.au

Halifax crash

Thanks Bill. I’m sure Phil would be interested to read that.
I found it by entering www.spenboroughtoday.co.uk and then the following URL
http://www.spenboroughguardian.co.uk/news/AMAZING-SEARCH-FOR-CHILDHOOD-HERO.528585.jp

BILL37

phil103
For your interest you might take a look at www.spenboroughtoday.co.uk
and the article dated Friday June 6 2003 will go a long way to explaining
how Tom and I came to meet again after sixty years.
Tom and I usually try to have our celebration drink on the appropriate
Boxing Day but this year we met on Christmas eve. Near enough.
We used to live twenty minutes away from each other but Tom has
recently moved a couple of hours drive south of Perth, but my daughter
lives near him so I have an excuse for dropping in for a beer. He`s always
in fine form.
Be in touch soon Tom about the book.

BILL37

Halifax crash

Bloomin marvellous – straight from the horses mouth!

Tom, welcome to the forum. I hope you will stick around!

Bruce

Thanks Bruce. Good to meet you on the forum. Helpful material has surfaced.
Tom
www.writerspen.com.au

Halifax Crash

Thanks from Tom84 the pilot of Halifax JB788 in 1943. Wonderful to meet you all with your varying intersts.
Don Bryans Midland Air Crash Research
Your getting details from WR Chorley book very helpful. Also if you want to divert to the site sometime I suggest you start on old Leeds Huddersfield road, the stone wall north of Drub Lane, look up west to top of hill, Hunsworth Pub, I skimmed the tiles off that, down into the valley, skidded across Leeds Huddersfield road then between two power poles and pulled down power cables, through the stone wall, smashed into the bank of a creek and ended adjacent to houses on Drub Lane.
Your second comments also nice to have.
Linzee (Archieraf), your quote on BBC ww2 people’s war, was spot on. Well done. The small boy in that account, Bill Duncanson, now lives in my country, Oz, and we meet once a year as he loves to recount the fright he and 3 other boys got as I flew over the pub.
DCK your comments just touched the spot for me.
Phil, you asked about Devils Glen. I believe it is a continuation of the creek near Drub Lane but on the west side of Leeds Huddersfield road.
Cees, What an enthusiast you are. I’ll try to answer on the Halifax shortly.
Tom[/COLOR]

Hi Tom,

Well, reason for my interest in the Halifax is that I am building a cockpitsection from scratch (see pics below) and I have a thing for all things HP built with the Halifax particular. I know the Halifax was very robust but in general Joe Public knows only about the Lancaster and Spitfire but other aircraft types are generally ignored or suffer from incorrect “myths”. The best information is from the “horse’s mouth” (you in this case ahum).

Can you tell us something about your training (did you fly Whitleys for instance) you opinion about the tailproblems the Halifax suffered in the early versions, performance and was there a sort of competition between Lancaster (you know, the Daily Mirror bomber) and Halifax crews?

Thanks for any insight you can give us to broaden our knowledge.

Cheers

Cees

Halifax crash

Phil hi
You asked re photos. In my visit to Drub Lane in 1986 I took several shots.
I met Drub Lane resident Brian Rhodes. He had found the locking mechanism that kept the wheels up for that heavy landing gear on the Halifax. I have a photo of that. I’ve put the mechanism on display several times and it has created interest. One interested aircraft engineer commented that Aerospace was still producing similar into the 1990s.
Other photos include a shot of the stone wall I took the Halifax through. (That would be a good one for Cees on this forum who is so interested int the Hali. It was robust Cees)
Other shots from 1986 show residents who had remembered my name and that I was from Oz. etc
Good on you Phil for tracking all this down.
Tom84
www.writerspen.com.au

Halifax crash

Hi Tom,

Welcome to the forum, I fully agree with Bruce, but then again I am biased regarding the Halifax.

Do you have any stories, anecdotes etc. about your life with the Halifax and perhaps can clear some “myths” about the Halifax.

Cheers

Cees

Hullo Cees
Thanks, you encourage me.
Christmas and Boxing Day are days for me when the Devil’s Glen crash in 1943 comes to my mind and also a Christmas present for Hitler in 1944. I don’t do much on my PC but I did idly type in the word Gomersal and was amazing how Phil’s question came up on my screen.
Cees I wonder what is your main question about the Halifax?
I’m the one and only surviving member of our Pathfinder Association (out of near forty flyers) in Western Australia so my anecdotes are now pretty well tabulated in my three publications, “Voice from the Stars a Pathfinders Story”, “AFTER Voice from the Stars” and “A Pathfinders Photos CD”. See how you can get those on www.writerspen.com.au.
best wishes
Tom84

Thank you Tom

Thanks for posting on hear Tom, I am interested as I used to work on a farm on Drub Lane and from time to time we find interesting lumps of metal hear and there and the farmers brother used to tell us about the bomber crashing in the fields. I thought he’d been on the sherry to be honest and it wasn’t until I went to Elvington and saw the map showing all crashes that I actually believed him. In the book preview it mentions Devils Glen but I’ve never heard of that place?