Good news for the Whirlwind brigade, a new model on the way

This is the baby… :eagerness:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234921255-172-what-if-westland-sea-whirlwind-nf6/

Hi MrBlueSky;

That was my modelling brain fart. Wouldn’t mind having a crack at it in 1/32 scale. I still haven’t got around to adding the missing pitot tube!

Regards;
Steve

Hi All,
Finally found some spare time for the hobby ! life and work interferes to much

a letter from westlands at the NA regarding the early welkin proposal
quote
from the purely production view the most interesting thing about the …… is that we shall probably be able to use the whirlwind outer wings, slots, ailerons, rear fuselage and tail unit, with a number of the detail parts particularly the main wing spar boom

naturally the spec changed as the welkin proposal was more defined and ended up with a totally different machine than the one talked about above
cheers
jerry

As a P.S.
I will try to scan those photos this weekend and send them………This will make sense to those who know………

This is the baby… :eagerness:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234921255-172-what-if-westland-sea-whirlwind-nf6/

Whirlin?

Specifically the Merlin Whirlin.. I’ll get me coat.

All I know is it’s from Westland drawing 84132, 6th Dec 1940. This version appeared in ‘Aviation News’ in 1982. We have not found the drawing, but I will be asking again now that the Westland archive has been catalogued thanks to the efforts of Dave Gibbings and Emily Weeks.

Wrekin, I believe.

Again, thanks to Jerry Brewer – not a Welkin, as first glance would suggest, but a proposed Whirlwind development – reproduced in a magazine from an original Westland drawing.. sort of a half-way house.

Did that half way house design have a name..?

The Don and the Flamingo were rather different animals, and totally unsuccessful. Both were out of production by the start of the war.

I would beg to differ slightly regarding the Flamingo being out of production by the start of the war-(or are you perhaps referring to the timing of the U.S.A.’s entry in to the conflict?):)

Again, thanks to Jerry Brewer – not a Welkin, as first glance would suggest, but a proposed Whirlwind development – reproduced in a magazine from an original Westland drawing.. sort of a half-way house.

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Was that not a Welkin? A much uglier younger brother with an unattractive name to match?

Correct 🙂 (Though I disagree on the unattractiveness of the name)

I thought that Westlands did produce an aerodynamically improved, Merlin powered development of the Whirlwind anyway … OK so it had a pressurised cockpit, and longer span wings …

Was that not a Welkin? A much uglier younger brother with an unattractive name to match?

http://www.italeri.com/scheda.asp?idProdotto=2095

The link is to a Wessex kit. Not the same.

Oh Dear :)!
Older readers may recall the `1/48th S55/H19 on floats ( or wheels) produced by Revell & later Lodela in the 50’s to 70’s and also an Aurora kit in the same scale.

The Revell kit was around when I was very young…I recall my brother building me one when I was too young to make one myself.
In fact, I can recall having one on floats at the Officers Mess swimming pool…and a pilot telling me he flew them.
The kit is elderly and a bit beyond its “best by” date. No interior detail or even cabin windows. However it does have a nice engine.

I thought that Westlands did produce an aerodynamically improved, Merlin powered development of the Whirlwind anyway … OK so it had a pressurised cockpit, and longer span wings …

The Don and the Flamingo were rather different animals, and totally unsuccessful. Both were out of production by the start of the war.

Er,there was the Don of course and by derivation the Flamingo- but point taken.

At the time, de Havilland had little clout, as they hadn’t produced a military aircraft, other than Tiger Moth for some years.

At the time the Mosquito made its first flight, it was envisaged that DH would be building bomb racks for Tiger Moths, building AS Oxfords, and repairing Hurricanes.

The big plus for the Mosquito was the use of wood to build much of it – again, I suspect that had something to do with the closure of the Whirlwind line, especially bearing in mind Edgars excellent bit of research above.

Bruce

Thanks Edgar. It does give simple reasons, doesn’t it? That thing about 50% more material does ring true.

The Merlin angle remains a ‘what if’, I suppose.. 410mph would have put it ‘out of range’ nicely, for a while anyway.

Edit – note that at that meeting Sholto-Douglas didn’t appear to mention the offer of a Merlin install from Westland, made to him only 13 days earlier. Not shouting ‘conspiracy’, more that the whole thing probably wasn’t at the forefront of anyone’s mind. The chances of anyone saying ‘By Jove, let’s try it and see’ rather than concentrating on more and faster Spitfires at the time were close to nil. I guess that answers my question.

Generally speaking our procurement procedure was fairly good,and while I love the Whirly – and obviously she was a real favourite with the pilots – I think that the correct decision was made !
I do not believe that fitting Merlins to the whirly would have been an easy process without enlarging the airframe slightly and there probably would have been a few secondary problems too (prob handling related)!
That said she is a really pretty aircraft and such a shame that none survived !

Niall’s book is excellent, Edgar. Agree there. Nobody was being histrionic though..

You should read some of the other websites that I’ve seen, with rose-tinted glasses in abundance, and a total refusal to see anybody else’s point of view.

One Peregrine = two Merlins.. so, the logical thing to do was.. cancel the aircraft? No, it was to fit Merlins.

There’s a hint that that would have involved 4-blade props of a special diameter, due to the proximity of the nacelles to the fuselage; I think the main stumbling-block was Dowding (although he tried to sound impartial,) since he felt that the Hurricane II (just coming into service in 1940) was capable of carrying the same armament, but only utilising one already-available engine; he was decidedly unhappy with the low production rate, as well.
Beaverbrook made the cancellation decision in October 1940, and Westland started on Spitfires in early 1941, which begs the question, how would they have increased production of the Whirlwind to what would have been needed?

We’ve been knocking some idea’s about Whirlwind models since the begining of the project, one of the favorites using the CAD Whirlwind would be to make say in 1/32 or even 1/25 scale a complete Whirlwind from the ground up, so with Kit 1 you’d start with the main internal structure, then Kit 2 would be according to the builders choice the ancillery units (Engine’s, undercarridge, cockpit etc… ) Kit 3 would be the exterior panels…

Then there’s desk-top models, using 3d printing a 1/72 scale Whirlwind would have all the detail that a full size replica would have, right down to a smallest screw, these could be either in wood or metal…

Then at last there’s a comic Whirlwind, not a kit, comes complete with working undercarridge, propeller’s and wheels, one for the kids, which will probably be the first to be released…

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i’ll have of of the cartoon ones and a desktop model!!!!

Matt.if the mod had have listened she would have been a world beater!!!!!!