Gotland has sunk largest aircraft carrier, the U.S.S. Reagan

But what I meant was there must be a reason US chosed HMS Gotland instead of all those others SSK:s that is out there all over the world, and wants to have her for at least one more year…

the reason is simple, because they are available. as sayed before no other state would give away a ssk+crew for one or more years only to train the us-navy.

I can tell u, shes the most quite , most deadly, most sophisticated, most lethal SSK out there. And she has operational AIP, probably only Sweden has that….and has had that since 1988

the germans also convert one of their type 205 subs with an aip (fuelcell) in 1987/88. today germany has the u-212 with fuelcell aip in service, italy also (in service?). greece and the rok are building u-214 in licence with fuellcell aip and the french are stil working on mesma. so there are other subs and other aip-systems out there. so i can not see the point why the swedish subs are the most quitest, most deadliest, most .. most …

and afaik the first sub with an aip was a german one. the v80 was equipped with a walter turbine and reached more than 28 kn in 1940.

We have to understand that Kockums were not that happy with the Australian deal.
Plus they were closed to bankrupt then.

Maybe because Sweden had a modern surplus boat they wanted to offload onto somebody else and the other navies with modern SSK’s want to retain them for their own use? :confused:

Considering how much trouble the aussies had over the Collins that could be attributed to poor swedish workmanship, I’d shut it if i were you.

I’ll go with Germans also. Over 30 subs worldwide can’t be wrong.

Wich other nations has better littorial SSK:s then Sweden, plz tell me. And why could not they(US) not ask for help with one their big ally?

hmmmm let me try… the Germans?
And since they absorbed Kockums, there is no more swedish submarine industry. :diablo:

You might want to check out the tech going on the SSGN, as well as USN’s PlusNet consept before going ‘bla bla’. Sweden has experience in brown water ASW, certainly among the best in the world, but the Gotland was not chosen because it was the best SSK, so stop being delusional. :rolleyes: The Collins and the Oyashios are better than the Gotland anyday. Other countries with better SSKs just happen to need their subs.

Wich other nations has better littorial SSK:s then Sweden, plz tell me. And why could not they(US) not ask for help with one their big ally?

“The Collins and the Oyashios are better than the Gotland anyday”

Yep, the Collins (wich is a swedish design) is much better than its follower the Gotland… And the Oyashios is probably much better than its follower; the new japanese sub that will have a swedish AIP that sweden installed on HMS Näcken 18 years ago!

Do you se a pattern? The swedish subs is in the lead and u guys copy it (under license) 15 years later, still u claim your sub the ****?! I just dont get it….

You might want to check out the tech going on the SSGN, as well as USN’s PlusNet consept before going ‘bla bla’. Sweden has experience in brown water ASW, certainly among the best in the world, but the Gotland was not chosen because it was the best SSK, so stop being delusional. :rolleyes: The Collins and the Oyashios are better than the Gotland anyday. Other countries with better SSKs just happen to need their subs.

The USN has a whole bevy of technologies coming up that are targeted at SSK detection. Naturally they’d want an SSK to try out those techologies on to evaluate their effectiveness and feasibility.

Bla bla bla, and so does every other country. Specially the country that has the best experience in hunting modern SSK:s in littoral invorenment with live ammo – namely Sweden… We have been hunting modern soviet SSK:s and minisubs live in the toughest littoral invorenment in the world with live ammo for over 40 years. You cant get any better than us…

But what I meant was there must be a reason US chosed HMS Gotland instead of all those others SSK:s that is out there all over the world, and wants to have her for at least one more year…

I can tell u, shes the most quite , most deadly, most sophisticated, most lethal SSK out there. And she has operational AIP, probably only Sweden has that….and has had that since 1988

The USN has a whole bevy of technologies coming up that are targeted at SSK detection. Naturally they’d want an SSK to try out those techologies on to evaluate their effectiveness and feasibility.

We’ve all done it, the Norwegians, Japanese, Koreans, Aussies, etc–during exercises, which tends to greatly favor the submarines with very short detection range, and even shorter underwater range.

The USN is now intending to go littoral, and the threat of SSK has increased, of that there is no doubt.

Well, thats just what I said. And the US navy decided to lease a sub for a whole year – HMS Gotland. It got to be a reason for that. … Wait…. after one year of exercises they want to lease her for at least another year. Whats the reason for that?

We’ve all done it, the Norwegians, Japanese, Koreans, Aussies, etc–during exercises, which tends to greatly favor the submarines with very short detection range, and even shorter underwater range.

The USN is now intending to go littoral, and the threat of SSK has increased, of that there is no doubt.

Yes, and in previous exercises in the mediterranean and north sea swedish subs (Södermanland-class) has “sunk” US/NATO subs and naval ships aswell. I think all navies with subs has done that…

But this is the first time I´ve seen it go so public, and even in an american newschannel.

This is not only one exercise, HMS Gotland have been over there for over an year and US has leased it for one more. There´s got to be a reason for that…

I would´nt be surprised if Sweden will have a sub over at San Diego for many years, since one of the Gotland-subs will be decommissioned (yes, I know it´s sad, not even 10 years old). My guess is that US.Navy will lease or buy it for training purposes… (If they want one more we got three Näcken-class subs waiting for buyers. HMS Näcken has AIP (was the worlds 1st operational with AIP) and was modernized just a few years ago)

In the first half of the 80s (1983?-84?, I cannot precise) during a NATO Exercise, the Portuguese Submarine “NRP Barracuda”(S-164), Daphne-type, (currently the sole submarine in service with the PN , until the commissioning of the 2 new U-209PN being built in Germany takes place, in 2010 and 2011), also “sanked” the US Carrier USS Einsenhower (CVN-69)

In 1974 a Pakistan Navy Daphne class sub also ‘sank’ a US carrier: http://www.pakdef.info/temp/Bubbles%20of%20Water.pdf

Its an interesting proposition….almost LCS (Surface) and LCS (Subsurface) – the great drawback is the range and sustainability issue that Unicorn illustrates so well. Forward basing using a new class of depot/transport ship or utilising local basing rights could offset but neither would be wonderfully economical or practical solutions!.

The USN seem to have a novel approach for taking the fight into the littoral anyway, and one the redoubtable Mr K.Plummer would approve of, robots and remote sensor nets. UUV operation capability is designed in to most new generation units and rapid-deployment forward SOSUS nets and SURTASS-LFA are at various stages of development which, coupled to current generation shooter assets like VLA and chopper LWTs, do offer good shallows coverage against inherently poor-mobility targets like SSK’s. Thats even before you get to the really wild, off-in-the-future, stuff the USN is looking at like DARPA’s Loki and Water Hammer research projects!.

SSK’s are handy platforms and, well driven, they are a threat to anything that comes into their backyard. Exercise scope shots of CVN’s etc are no great shakes though….more interesting was this report of the Dutch Walrus getting the drop on the USS Boise, Wanshan anything you have on that would be fascinating!.

Good to see you Jonesy. Hope you are doing well.

I think the Gotland class has a lot to look at for usefulness. Yes we do deep water with nuke attack subs. However, I think there could be a case made for us having a few of these. Where any Burke class could be a “sub tender” of sorts and meet it for provisioning when needed. 120 + crew in a Virginia “littorial” :rolleyes: vs. a 20 crew ship like the Gotland. I think we could use them effectively for some missions, not just for the reason of a nice happy face “saving money” type of thing. I think there are a few mission sets for the USN that would justify having some of these. To say they are dangerous, is an understatement. They could be very very useful. Also…. would you rather beach an almost 2 billion dollar, 120+ crew Virginia by mistake in a high threat littorial environ or a 20+ crew Gotland which would look a little less embarassing as some trophy after it was captured?

Its an interesting proposition….almost LCS (Surface) and LCS (Subsurface) – the great drawback is the range and sustainability issue that Unicorn illustrates so well. Forward basing using a new class of depot/transport ship or utilising local basing rights could offset but neither would be wonderfully economical or practical solutions!.

The USN seem to have a novel approach for taking the fight into the littoral anyway, and one the redoubtable Mr K.Plummer would approve of, robots and remote sensor nets. UUV operation capability is designed in to most new generation units and rapid-deployment forward SOSUS nets and SURTASS-LFA are at various stages of development which, coupled to current generation shooter assets like VLA and chopper LWTs, do offer good shallows coverage against inherently poor-mobility targets like SSK’s. Thats even before you get to the really wild, off-in-the-future, stuff the USN is looking at like DARPA’s Loki and Water Hammer research projects!.

SSK’s are handy platforms and, well driven, they are a threat to anything that comes into their backyard. Exercise scope shots of CVN’s etc are no great shakes though….more interesting was this report of the Dutch Walrus getting the drop on the USS Boise, Wanshan anything you have on that would be fascinating!.

the Amur950 of similar size is being marketed with 10 vl-klub tubes and 4 torpedo tubes(without reloads apparently) to anyone who wants it. Iran would probably love a dozen of these 🙂

The issue is that the distances between the continental US and likely operating areas are so vast that submarines have to be sizeable to make the transit.

The Gotland class are not designed for lengthy transits followed by lengthy time on station, then equally lengthy transits back home.

This is one of the reasons the RAN’s Collins Class and the RN’s Upholder’s were as large as they are. Big enough to support the provisions, fuel, crew and capabilities to deploy a long way from home waters for extended durations, the same requirement the USN would have.

The Gotland did not make its transit to the US unaided, as I recall it was transported by a heavy lift ship.

Unicorn

I think the Gotland class has a lot to look at for usefulness. Yes we do deep water with nuke attack subs. However, I think there could be a case made for us having a few of these. Where any Burke class could be a “sub tender” of sorts and meet it for provisioning when needed. 120 + crew in a Virginia “littorial” :rolleyes: vs. a 20 crew ship like the Gotland. I think we could use them effectively for some missions, not just for the reason of a nice happy face “saving money” type of thing. I think there are a few mission sets for the USN that would justify having some of these. To say they are dangerous, is an understatement. They could be very very useful. Also…. would you rather beach an almost 2 billion dollar, 120+ crew Virginia by mistake in a high threat littorial environ or a 20+ crew Gotland which would look a little less embarassing as some trophy after it was captured?

the U.S. is committed to its nuclear submarine force, and has no plans to develop subs like the Gotland.

That is bad news for Taiwan. When I first heard news of the US leasing the Gotland I thought for sure the US would copy this deadly sub and sell it to Taiwan. As each month goes by it does not look like the USA has any plans or any intent on helping Taiwan get subs as promised.