Guantanamo Bay

It depends upon where you live. I was just going to bed at 2am on the 12th of September 2001 when I saw the second aircraft fly into the WTC live on TV, so as far as I am concerned 11/9/2001 is of no significance… it is 12/9/2001 when the attack occured New Zealand time.

Flood

Yes I did screw up the date. It was mighty kind or you to point it out. Never was a great speeler or tipist. I mostly blame it on my tri-focals.

Make a capital case out of it if it makes you feel good. :rolleyes:

Still for a 9/11 conspiracy theory fan, there are some interesting items out there.

Sauron

The trick is to know how to Google.

Anyway, it might help if you knew that the event took place on September 11, 2001. :rolleyes:

Sauron

So which attack were you talking about that happened in New York in 2002?
Face it, you are going to have to admit that you got the date wrong (which you will regard as a big loss of face, probably) or this will go on for ever.

Flood

We did know that, Sauron.

You, however, were referring to as yet unexplained events that, apparently, took place in New York in 2002:

Do you agree with the theory that the U.S. brought on the Sep 02 NY attack because of it’s poor treatment of Arab nations and support for Israel?

The trick is to know how to Google.

Anyway, it might help if you knew that the event took place on September 11, 2001. :rolleyes:

Sauron

No Dubya isn’t the way “W” is said the Left Wing say Dubya with the D sounding like Duh.

What. People from Texas say Dubya with it sounding like Duh. Hell, so do the majority of Southerners I bet. It’s called an accent. And while we’re at it, when you pronounce “W”, it comes out like “duhbelyew”. Hence, the duh.

I did try, honest, but there was nothing for attacks on New York on 11/9/02. Even tried it as 9/11/02 (since some find it funny to make us Europeans believe it happened in November) but nothing there either.

Uh oh, Europeans use an anti-American system for writing dates…

😀

Well if are serious Google for The U.S.caused 9/11 or something similar I think you will find many articles/statements/opinion pieces/editorials some of which suggest that view.

Sauron

I did try, honest, but there was nothing for attacks on New York on 11/9/02. Even tried it as 9/11/02 (since some find it funny to make us Europeans believe it happened in November) but nothing there either. Have concluded that you have gone all out to deceive us in your teasing and tricksy fashion, or you got the year wrong.
Now in the future give us the right information before getting snotty but, in the meantime, roll a six before moving…;)

Flood

“Do you agree with the theory that the U.S. brought on the Sep 02 NY attack because of it’s poor treatment of Arab nations and support for Israel?”

Yes. Don’t you?

and when did that attack take place??

was it in 2001 or 2002??

Its a 50:50 chance of loosing………

Proof-reading may be of benefit to you.

Flood

You asked:

Please provide information on this one – seemed to have missed it.

concerning 9/11. Really?

Well if are serious Google for The U.S.caused 9/11 or something similar I think you will find many articles/statements/opinion pieces/editorials some of which suggest that view.

Sauron

Should have slotted the b@st@rds on sight, would have saved a lot of taxpayers money and a lot of left-wing ‘civil rights’ nonsense.

well said that man!!!!
Greg

I do enjoy reading this thread……….crazymainer, and sauron, there is an excellent section in a book i’ll put at the end of this sentence all about US nationals supplying 50.cal sniper rifles and stinger missiles to terrorists:

‘Bandit Country’ by Toby Harnden.

You can purchase this in a bookshop. You may even be able to hire it out of your local library, although it may be a little harder to acquire if your local library IS called the Stalin-Kruschev Library.

Perhaps, after reading this title, you may begin to understand why the credibility of your statements (and in fact a great many of your governments statements) leaves a little to be desired.

coanda

Do you agree with the theory that the U.S. brought on the Sep 02 NY attack because of it’s poor treatment of Arab nations and support for Israel?

Please provide information on this one – seemed to have missed it.

Flood

Have you ever actually supported any U.S. action, deed or policy, or given it credit for anything (past or present) on this forum? The current administration or any preceeding one? If you have, it must have been grudgingly.

Surely anybody here, Arthur included, can post whatever they want! Why does Arthur need to make postings that have any balance?

Your complaints about how the U.S. is handling terrorists and terrorism would have more creditability if you proposed solutions rather than simply complaining. From the european experience with terrorist you are obviously aware of how difficult it is to prevent terrorist attacks, find the guilty and prosecute them. Those held in Cuba are at least temporarly out of action.

Your confused ramblings would have more credibility if your spelling and grammar were on a par with several people here for whom English isn’t their first language, Arthur included.

Finally Arthur I see you are contibuting to the sly suggestion that the U.S. has supported IRA terrorism by supplying money and weapons. No one would argue that there isn’t some support in the American Irish communities for the IRA, but to advance the notion that the U.S. government supports terrorism in the UK is lunacy. Is the fact that U.S. weapons have been involved, proof?

Where on Earth do you get the idea that anyone posting on this forum believes that the U.S. government has any complicity in supplying arms to the IRA?? Yet again your fevered imagination takes precedence over what you are actually reading in people’s posts!

Steve

Steve Really now and when did this so-called “Homemade Missile System ” arrest happen, you would think it would have been all over the Greater north Eastern News but funny I don’t recall it and I ask some of my friends who work for the local Fishwrap to do a search and they couldn’t come up with anything. they did come up with a few IRA releated link that talk about the possibality of Money being sent thru certain mob control Busniess in New York and Chicago and even a item about thre IRA Supporters being question about some High Power Rifles bought at a Boston Gun Show.

I’m sorry, but I really can’t be faulted for the ignorance on your part. Facts are facts, and that you’re not aware of them is purely down to you not being well-read or well-informed. I gave you enough “leads” above: there are, quite literally, hundreds of links, threads and news items out there so all you have to do is look. Go along to the ‘Boston Globe’ and trawl their archive if you are interested enough: your acceptance of plain facts isn’t really of much concern to me and whether you believe them or not won’t alter history.

This is just an excerpt:

1983 – FBI foils IRA bid to buy explosives in Wyoming. Man arrested. Seven tons of arms, ammo and explosives seized. 1984 Cargo seized on fishing boat Marita Ann by Irish Navy. Men jailed in USA and Ireland. Arms procured by drugs gang in Boston. Small arms received from the USA

1985 – FBI foils IRA bid to buy small arms in Colorado, one Irishman deported. 40 firearms, including FN FAL rifles x 13; AK-47 x 1. Also: hand grenades x 2, drums of nitro benzene, 70,000 rounds of ammunition.

1986 – Dutch police seize arms in raid on apartment in Amsterdam. Two well known four IRA men arrested. Heckler & Koch G3 rifles found. Irish police seize 10 G3 rifles in 1986 – part of batch of 100 stolen from Norwegian Reserve base near Oslo, 1984. FBI ‘sting’ foils plot to fly arms cargo by private jet from Boston to Ireland.

1987 – IRA receives Redeye SAMs, M-60 MGs, M-16 rifles, MP-5 SMGs, bulletproof vests from USA. Several convictions followed. 150 tons of arms: AK-47s, SAM-7s (reported), Semtex, and RPG-7 rocket launchers, Taurus pistols, plus other materiel Libya

1985-87 Four shipments of arms and explosives successfully landed in Ireland by boat skipper Adrian Hopkins, these include 1,000 AK-47s, 20 SAM-7s RPG-7s, 2 tonnes of Semtex received from Libya. French Navy seize cargo on Eksund, skippered by Adrian Hopkins, off Brittany. Five arrested 380 gallons of nitro benzene.

1988 Cargo smuggled from Amsterdam aboard truck; seized by Irish police, Kells, Co Meath. Driver later jailed. Small arms described as ‘high-powered rifles’ USA received. US Customs foil bid to buy rifles from gun dealer in Alabama. Two men jailed. Detonators for bombs; anti-aircraft missile system received from the USA.

1990 – Group of IRA supporters jailed in Boston in 1990 for trying to smuggle a home-made missile system to Ireland. Member of group is also believed to have supplied detonators in 1982-88. Stinger missiles USA late 1980s/ early 1990s FBI foils plot to acquire Stingers on black market in Miami.

Steve

As an aside, I find it interesting that crazymainer insists on calling anyone who disagrees with his somewhat idiosyncratic worldview a “left winger”.

If I remember rightly, he once described Senator Edward Kennedy as an “extreme left winger”. :D:D:D:D

(Note for Americans and other aliens – Senator Kennedy would find himself perfectly at home in the centre-right of our Conservative party)

Maybe it’s you that’s out of step with everyone else, crazymainer. Have you ever seriously considered that possibility? 🙂

Arthur

Linguistically challanged! Very cute but a bit clumsy. You should have saved it for a better time.

I am surprised you didn’t catch my meaning when I said

Maybe, when certain governments begin to agree with U.S. foreign policy there will be real cause to worry.

Think “certain governments” like North Korea, Cuba, Iran and perhaps you will understand Arthur.

Your must be referring to what someone else said about the “two Belgians”. But why would the Belgians have to be dragged into the fight againt terrorism? Is it not in their interests? Why would they not wish to co-operate because of a minor issue? Why take the chance?

I think we all know that the U.S. is in the UN, in light of how much the U.S contributes towards the UN’s annual budget. 😉

You ask “Where do i exactly deny the US to defend itself from terrorism” Well exactly where do you state that it does and to what degree? Have you ever actually supported any U.S. action, deed or policy, or given it credit for anything (past or present) on this forum? The current administration or any preceeding one? If you have, it must have been grudgingly.

Your complaints about how the U.S. is handling terrorists and terrorism would have more creditability if you proposed solutions rather than simply complaining. From the european experience with terrorist you are obviously aware of how difficult it is to prevent terrorist attacks, find the guilty and prosecute them. Those held in Cuba are at least temporarly out of action.

You complain that the U.S. sometimes acts alone and is proud of it! Imagine that! The nerve that the U.S. dosn’t clear every aspect of it’s foreign policy and bi-lateral agreements with UN or EU central beforehand. You resent that it can and does act in it’s own intersets. You could at least admit that there is significant day to day co-operation with others in confronting terrorism. Wht the reluctance?

As to your evenhandedness in having made “plenty of posts i’ve made in which i’m critical of Russia or the Soviet Union”. Perhaps, but you have also made plenty of posts where you praise and defend both.

It’s quite apparent Arthur, that you harbour a dislike for the Bush administration and that’s OK but it’s equally obvious that you dislike the U.S.
Your posts are replete with anti-American views.

I suspect this attitude is due to a combination of your left wing beliefs, the fact that the U.S. made such a large contribution to winning the cold war, and resentment that Europe has had to depend on U.S military power for protection during most of your lifetime.

Finally Arthur I see you are contibuting to the sly suggestion that the U.S. has supported IRA terrorism by supplying money and weapons. No one would argue that there isn’t some support in the American Irish communities for the IRA, but to advance the notion that the U.S. government supports terrorism in the UK is lunacy. Is the fact that U.S. weapons have been involved, proof? Would the existance of AK47’s prove Russia is involved? What other government outside the UK, has worked harder with all sides in an attempt to find a political solution than the U.S.? Belgium perhaps? Then there is the suggestion that the U.S. is somehow late for the war on terror as it was for WW1 and WW2.

Do you agree with the theory that the U.S. brought on the Sep 02 NY attack because of it’s poor treatment of Arab nations and support for Israel? If so are the Brits responsible for the Irish problem because of their mistreatment of the Irish? No? Better to blame the Americans.

Sauron

SOC,

No Dubya isn’t the way “W” is said the Left Wing say Dubya with the D sounding like Duh.

RER

There’s a reason for that, CM…. 😉

Sorry, couldnt resist. :rolleyes:

I don’t intend doing the legwork on RER’s behalf as I already know for a fact that Boston was one of the main sources for funding the IRA so far as the US is concerned.

There are also 1990 stories about Bostonians being jailed after attempting to export a “homemade missile system”.

Steve

Steve Really now and when did this so-called “Homemade Missile System ” arrest happen, you would think it would have been all over the Greater north Eastern News but funny I don’t recall it and I ask some of my friends who work for the local Fishwrap to do a search and they couldn’t come up with anything. they did come up with a few IRA releated link that talk about the possibality of Money being sent thru certain mob control Busniess in New York and Chicago and even a item about thre IRA Supporters being question about some High Power Rifles bought at a Boston Gun Show.

SOC,

No Dubya isn’t the way “W” is said the Left Wing say Dubya with the D sounding like Duh.

Arthur,

Like I said it was the Left who started the whole Dubya thing not the RNC. As for Tennesse Steve didn’t say Tennesse he made a point to say Boston Mass.

Flood I hate to say this but your wrong again under Regan,Bush Sr and Clinton the FBI did go after IRA Gun Runners and Money one of the many reason the RECO Laws where enacted was to stop the US Irish based Mob in helping the IRA. In 1988 or 89 their was a huge bust of Mob folks in NYC that where conect with Money Laundrying IRA funds(notice folks I said NYC not Boston as Steve has said). Over the years the FBI and ATF have been tracking varoius IRA releated purchase I know trhis because I remember going to Gun Shows and haven FBI and ATF handing out flyers saying if you see so and so don’t sell them any weapons and report them to the ATF/FBI.

RER