Gun recoil effect on control column?

I seem to remember a quote from a novice pilot just before the Battle-of-Britain; asked to fly his Spitfire out over the English Channel and ‘get the feel’ of the guns being fired he forgot to rotate the safety bezel on the firing-button and returned (having not fired a single round) thinking ‘they are very silent these guns’!

LMAO!

You must remember that aircraft in films operate to different laws of physics compared to real world aeroplanes.

The usual failure mode is for them to enter a VNE dive whilst making a noise like a Stuka, and for which the appropriate crew recovery action is for one member of each sex to jointly heave back on a control yoke as hard as possible.

Moggy

:highly_amused:

A nice video of a Mustang letting lose with its 50 cal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niJ82YCiuYU

You must remember that aircraft in films operate to different laws of physics compared to real world aeroplanes.

The usual failure mode is for them to enter a VNE dive whilst making a noise like a Stuka, and for which the appropriate crew recovery action is for one member of each sex to jointly heave back on a control yoke as hard as possible.

Moggy

Perhaps this recent detailed film with close ups of a P-51 firing its guns may be helpful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niJ82YCiuYU

Tim

Thanks everbody who answered. I must have read too many war stories or seen too many movies. I’m sure i saw a P40 shoot blanks at an airshow on this website last year and started wondering…..

I had never thought about this before as I always considered the sensation I felt was due to recoil, but Jay is quite possibly correct.
When we were upgraded to the Meteor NF I was dissappointed when we went air firing that I could neither feel anything or see a puff of smoke, the guns were shielded from us by the engine nacelles. One could just hear the bangs, there just wasn’t the buck.

I watched a programme recently sbout the Mosquito and in interview with one of the few remaining pilots who flew them it was made plain that the firing of the 57mm gun was a very noticeable slow thumping which was heard and felt by both crew members.

Always wondered the same with the Mossy fitted 6 pounder Molins gun.

There’s film of the molins Mossie firing the gun into the butts at A&AEE. With its tail supported and the aircraft tied down, the aircarft rocks backwards several inches each time the gun fires. I’ve no doubt the recoil was felt in flight also.

In the Mosquito the 4 20mms were in the fuselage immediately below the crew. Recoil was taken by a subframe below ones feet. While the pilot had his feet on the rudder pedals he didn’t feel it, but to the nav it felt that the thin plywood floor was being belted with a lump of wood.

I can see that totally, however, as the 20mm’s where rather short barrelled and the muzzles where contained not that far forward of the the crew compartment with the breaches being almost directly under the seats……I would wonder if the Nav. would feel more of the “recoil” or feel the concussive force of the firing from the muzzles and the breaches operating almost under him?……I mean with the stable mounting and the recoil mechanisms installed, and alot of the “recoil blowback” being absorbed by the system to cycle the guns, just how much is actual recoil and how much is concussion force being absorbed and transmitted through the fuselage?

I;ve never fired guns in an Aircraft, BUT during my service in the Armoured Corp, when we where firing the Coax mounted MG’s etc…..due to the very short barrels, there was definately a substantial increase in the concussive force felt, than say from the standard long barrelled HMG…..even firing a GPMG from the bipod ( a very slim “mounting” in my opinion) there really wasn;t any HUGE recoil to be felt….yes the gun pushed back and one could feel the gun operating with the recoil blowback….but surely nothing that was uncontrollable or worrisome in fact I would say that a 12 gauge shotgun produces more “recoil” than an MG….

now certainly the large size of the 20 mm rounds would increase the effects, but again…..looking at the mounting and locations of the “parts”…is it more concussive waves hitting the airframe OR is it the mechanical recoil being felt?……combination of both?……in my opinion, the recoil is always accounted for in the initial design of the weapon, systems and mountings designed to absorb the bulk of the “recoil”…but the concussive “shock waves” that eminate from the barrel ( combustive gasses behind the projectile ) is almost impossible to control and certainly with a shortened barrel on a mounting like the quad mount on the Mossie, I think that even with the plane flying at speed, the shock waves ( for lack of a better word) would slam the bottom of the aircraft with every firing….

just my take on it……..cheers…

I seem to remember a quote from a novice pilot just before the Battle-of-Britain; asked to fly his Spitfire out over the English Channel and ‘get the feel’ of the guns being fired he forgot to rotate the safety bezel on the firing-button and returned (having not fired a single round) thinking ‘they are very silent these guns’!

Always wondered the same with the Mossy fitted 6 pounder Molins gun.

In the Mosquito the 4 20mms were in the fuselage immediately below the crew. Recoil was taken by a subframe below ones feet. While the pilot had his feet on the rudder pedals he didn’t feel it, but to the nav it felt that the thin plywood floor was being belted with a lump of wood.

I think that is purely for dramatic effect. I’d guess as the weapons are located in the wing any recoil would be absorbed by the weapon mount/wing structure – having watched a fair bit of gun camera footage I cannot recall seeing any noticable vibration in the camera, which was usually mounted a few feet from the weapons.

Recently there was a test firing for an aviation programme of a .303 dug up (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15660438 & http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15652440) and the weapon was ‘rigged’ up to be fired from a safe distance – the recoil certainly did not ‘travel’ down the hose to the operator. The only jumping he did was from the sheer noise of the weapon going off…