GWS-31 Sea Dart Mark-2

Sealord,

I’d consider it extremely unlikely that any public source will be able to shed much light on the Active Sea Dart project. As stated I only heard about the concept from one disgruntled petty officer!. I would guess that an enquiry put to BAE may be the only route for trying to find out what, if any, serious progress was made on the weapon.

From what little I know it was a carryover from the work done on GWS27 ‘super-SeaWolf’. It was quite the fashion, at the time, to try and stick active seekers onto anything and trying to get a VLS setup knocked together was the logical next step.

As to timeline I heard about it in the middle of 1992 and it had obviously been knocking around, as a concept, some time before that. The BAE MESAR radar research, that later developed into the SAMPSON MFR, was under development from the mid 80’s and I always assumed that there was an intent to mate MESAR to Active Dart. Pure speculation on my part though. Anyway what is certain is that the Aster/PAAMS project was embarked upon in December ’92 and that put paid to any further development of the GWS30 system beyond that needed to maintain viability.

Range is, of course, dependent on the target being engaged. Kinematically the missile is good for a LONG way past the 40km’s originally advertised and the limitation was always with the 909 directors. The 909(I)’s now deployed, along with the upgrade rounds themselves, make the system hugely more capable than it was in either the Falklands or Desert Storm, somewhat obviously, and I wouldnt be so fast to write it off as totally obsolescent – apart, of course, from facing concentrated saturation fire which, to be fair, would also present problems for SM-1 or SA-N-7 equipped vessels!.

Thanks very much Jonesey, I wonder how cooperative BAe might be.:diablo:

Everyone I have spoken to about Sea Dart has held it in quite high regard for its time, the overall reputation seems to have been very good, I have been told that it even impressed a number of UN officers!

Sealord,

I’d consider it extremely unlikely that any public source will be able to shed much light on the Active Sea Dart project. As stated I only heard about the concept from one disgruntled petty officer!. I would guess that an enquiry put to BAE may be the only route for trying to find out what, if any, serious progress was made on the weapon.

From what little I know it was a carryover from the work done on GWS27 ‘super-SeaWolf’. It was quite the fashion, at the time, to try and stick active seekers onto anything and trying to get a VLS setup knocked together was the logical next step.

As to timeline I heard about it in the middle of 1992 and it had obviously been knocking around, as a concept, some time before that. The BAE MESAR radar research, that later developed into the SAMPSON MFR, was under development from the mid 80’s and I always assumed that there was an intent to mate MESAR to Active Dart. Pure speculation on my part though. Anyway what is certain is that the Aster/PAAMS project was embarked upon in December ’92 and that put paid to any further development of the GWS30 system beyond that needed to maintain viability.

Range is, of course, dependent on the target being engaged. Kinematically the missile is good for a LONG way past the 40km’s originally advertised and the limitation was always with the 909 directors. The 909(I)’s now deployed, along with the upgrade rounds themselves, make the system hugely more capable than it was in either the Falklands or Desert Storm, somewhat obviously, and I wouldnt be so fast to write it off as totally obsolescent – apart, of course, from facing concentrated saturation fire which, to be fair, would also present problems for SM-1 or SA-N-7 equipped vessels!.

sealordlawrence wrote:

>By the way, it is a great book, one of those lovely little gems you luckily stumble upon every now and then.

I have a copy of the book somewhere on my bookshelves, but haven’t read it in years. It was a product of those far-off days when Jane’s was run from a small office near Old Street underground station, and you could find now-legendary authors enjoying their beer in a nearby public house.

>Any details about the active radar homing VLS launched version?

No, sorry. Never heard of that proosed variant.

Mercurius Cantabrigiensis

Thanks for your help everybody!

So what happened to the Type 1030 STIR, did that get cancelled in the 80s’ aswell?

I assume that the VLS active radar homing sea dart was studied when it became apparent that Horizon was going down the pan.:confused:

Britain’s withdrawal from CNGF/Horizon should not be confused with its continuing participation in PAAMS. Horizon was only the platform and PAAMS was the system. The future of PAAMS was never in very much real doubt and it seems very improbable that any serious thought was given to a Sea Dart derivative of any kind after the UK dropped out of CNGF/Horizon.

Thanks for your help everybody!

So what happened to the Type 1030 STIR, did that get cancelled in the 80s’ aswell?

I assume that the VLS active radar homing sea dart was studied when it became apparent that Horizon was going down the pan.:confused:

Britain’s withdrawal from CNGF/Horizon should not be confused with its continuing participation in PAAMS. Horizon was only the platform and PAAMS was the system. The future of PAAMS was never in very much real doubt and it seems very improbable that any serious thought was given to a Sea Dart derivative of any kind after the UK dropped out of CNGF/Horizon.

Thanks Mercurious. By the way, it is a great book, one of those lovely little gems you luckily stumble upon every now and then.;)

Any details about the active radar homing VLS launched version?:confused:

sealordlawrence wrote:

>Hi everybody, I picked up a book the other day called Naval Armament, it was published in 1981 and written by Doug Richardson. It has a fairly comprehensive list and description of most of the Naval weapons of the day.

Doug Richardson was sighted at the recent DSEI exhibition in London complete with a copy of Naval Armament – apparently the book was to be given to an industry official who’d remembered reading it at military college.

>In the section about sea dart it mentions that British Aerospace was working on a Mark-2 version called GWS-31… Does anybody have any photos, or artists impressions of this missile or any other information?

According to Jane’s, British Aerospace revealed plans for a Sea Dart Mk 2 in November 1977. It was to have had thrust vector control, redesigned control surfaces, a new fuze, improved electronics, greater fuel capacity and a Type 909M tracker-illuminator with two channels of fire.

Planned to be part of the Type 42 mid-life upgrade, this was cancelled in 1981 as part of UK government economic cutbacks.

Some limited upgrading was eventually carried out. By 1989, the original continuous rod warhead had been replaced by a blast fragmentation warhead fitted with an IR proximity fuze.

A missile-refurbishment programme was begun in 1996. This includes a new IR prox fuze designed to improve performance against low-level targets. The upgrading of all in-service missiles is due to end next year.

Shipboard electronic subsystems were given limited modernisation under a series of contracts. In the most recent, from 2004 onwards the Type 909 radars of the Type 42 were fitted with a new J-band microwave synthesiser intended to improve the maintainability of the system and reduce maintenance costs. This was the last major engineering update anticipated for the GWS 30 system.

>What is the actual range of Sea Dart, according to the RN website it is 80km, but I have seen figures varying massively from 30km upwards?

I’ve got very little ‘inside knowledge’ of Sea Dart. According to Jane’s, the range is 40 km – that’s probably against a manoeuvring target. Some 30 years ago a source within what was than Hawker Siddeley Dynamics once told me that the round could do 80 km, but I’d guess that was a theoretical range against a non- manoeuvring target such as a high altitude bomber or maritime-patrol aircraft.

Mercurius Cantabrigiensis

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but I have a few more questions. I was kind of hoping that British secret porjects (the latest missile version) would provide alot more information on this but to be honest it was a bit dissapointing. Anyway back to the questions.

What is the actual range of Sea Dart, according to the RN website it is 80km, but I have seen figures varying massively from 30km upwards?

Furthermore is there anymore information on the active homing variant jonsey mantioned?:confused:

Thanks in advance sealordlawrence.

The Type 1030 was cancelled, however the current Type 1022 essentially uses the a single antenna of the system – the 1030 was to have two antennas back to back.

I’m intrigued by the mention of a Sea Dart2 from the 90’s, I have only ever seen information of the system cancelled by Knott in 1982. Any further details.

Thanks practica, what advantage would the Type-1030 have had over the Type-1022?

The Type 1030 was cancelled, however the current Type 1022 essentially uses the a single antenna of the system – the 1030 was to have two antennas back to back.

I’m intrigued by the mention of a Sea Dart2 from the 90’s, I have only ever seen information of the system cancelled by Knott in 1982. Any further details.

Thanks for your help everybody!

So what happened to the Type 1030 STIR, did that get cancelled in the 80s’ aswell?

I assume that the VLS active radar homing sea dart was studied when it became apparent that Horizon was going down the pan.:confused:

This is a different ‘new SeaDart’ then as the one I’m talking about was being looked at in the early 90’s and incorporated a VL launcher modification and, allegedly, an active seeker.

The 1976 GWS 31 study called for vertical launch and mid-course guidance for illumination in the terminal phase only (similar to NTU) – a single illuminator could provide guidance for more than 1 missile. This would also resulted in longer range, as the missile could travel a more efficient path.

The later 1978 missile looked at a number of options including reducing reaction time form 23 to 20 seconds, range would be 47 km (Sea Dart 21 km) against a ‘demanding target’. Effectiveness would go from 0.53 to 0.7, minimum range stays 4.1 km and the Type 090 remains the director.

In was killed in 1982 by the Defence Review.

STIR and Sea Dart Mk II would have been fitted on as many of the earlier Type 42 as possible.

Best of luck with this one SLL, I used to fix the things and I never heard or saw anything ‘official’ about the Advanced Sea Dart (as it was called at the time).

If it hadn’t been for our training PO grumbling about having to learn all the active seeker and vertical launch stuff I’d not have heard of it at all!.