Halifax/Hastings wing

Fantastic drawing, and even on that you can see the differnt taper to the intermediate section.

Karl sent the following to me and reiterated that there are over 400 parts from the halifax wing in the hastings wing.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]244028[/ATTACH]

Lots of modellers, when making an Avro York, simply attach a set of Lancaster wings to a York fuselage.

This obviously increases the overall wingspan by the difference in width of the respective fuselages.

As you point out, because the wingspans are the same, each Lancaster wing half needs to be reduced at the root by half of that difference in fuselage width – thus bringing the inner prop tips closer to the York fuselage.

Thanks for that, and I am one of those guilty modellers who is going to have to get the saw out. I’m now left wondering about the implications on the cabin noise in the York of those reduced prop tip clearances and if the shape of the fuselage provided the lift lost by the reduced wing area.
Back to the Hastings / Halifax debate.

Lots of modellers, when making an Avro York, simply attach a set of Lancaster wings to a York fuselage.

This obviously increases the overall wingspan by the difference in width of the respective fuselages.

As you point out, because the wingspans are the same, each Lancaster wing half needs to be reduced at the root by half of that difference in fuselage width – thus bringing the inner prop tips closer to the York fuselage.

Thanks for that, and I am one of those guilty modellers who is going to have to get the saw out. I’m now left wondering about the implications on the cabin noise in the York of those reduced prop tip clearances and if the shape of the fuselage provided the lift lost by the reduced wing area.
Back to the Hastings / Halifax debate.

Hello guy’s,
I just had a discussion with Karl Kjarsgaard regarding this topic,and hopefully I can answer some questions. Paul’s first CAD drawing he posted (post 140)is a bit misleading as one generally looks at the overlay and comparing the location of the engines etc,it convinces you that the outer wing is different on a Hastings compared to the Halifax. This is not quite true. If you look at the closeup cad drawing picture (post 142) and compare this with the first one, remove the outer wing at the production break which is just outboard of the inboard engine nacelle and drag that complete assembly down so that the wing tips of both Hastings and Halifax line up,the only difference is a 9 foot section of intermediate wing structure that is missing between the two engines on each wing. The outer wing panels have the same airfoil shape, same spar etc.

As most of you know project LW170 is based upon Halifax and Hastings components and while dis-assembly restoration and rebuild of a Halifax centre sections is underway, there have been part numbers on parts of the Hastings wing structure with the 57 part number..!

If anyone has further questions, drop me a message and I can put you in touch with Karl..

(image: John Dunham)

I make the gap between prop tip and fuselage side on the York to be 1′ 4″ and thats using dimensions from the Operators Handbook 1946.

Prop Dia 13′
Fuselage Width 8′ 10″
Centre Section Span 28′ 7″
Nacelle width 4′ 1″

Richard

At the risk of a thread hijack, with a fuselage wider than the Lancaster but with the same span (according to the references I’ve used) where did the York’s wing differ from the Lancaster? Presumably the inner engines propeller tips were closer to the fuselage on the York.

Lots of modellers, when making an Avro York, simply attach a set of Lancaster wings to a York fuselage.

This obviously increases the overall wingspan by the difference in width of the respective fuselages.

As you point out, because the wingspans are the same, each Lancaster wing half needs to be reduced at the root by half of that difference in fuselage width – thus bringing the inner prop tips closer to the York fuselage.

Can someone at Duxford take some photos of the respective types showing the gap between the props and fuselage for each?

Ken

(image: John Dunham)

At the risk of a thread hijack, with a fuselage wider than the Lancaster but with the same span (according to the references I’ve used) where did the York’s wing differ from the Lancaster? Presumably the inner engines propeller tips were closer to the fuselage on the York.

A bit of a zombie thread this but for those who are interested (And who isn’t intereseted in the Haifax – “second to none”).

There is a chap on the Handley page Halifax facebook group (John Dunham) who has taken CAD images of a late Halifax and overlaid them over a Hastings 1, It gives quite a clear picture of how the two wings come together.

I checked up at NAM this morning and no actual measuring has taken place, however I have extracted some data from a Hastings C Mk.1 (MET.1) Aircraft Service Manual that might help with the discussion.

Hopefully the information will be legible from the attached files.

Footnote: just noticed that this seems to duplicate feedback from pagen01 in #124 – sorry! 😮

If you do a search on YouTube with the title H57RC you will about 10 short films of a group making a Halifax wing centre section from a Hastings.

In summary; – strip to individual component parts, keep those component with part numbers which start with 57, bin those that don’t. Make a whole load of new bits and assemble a Halifax c’section. A lot work, but it answers a lot of the questions posed here.

I did a bit of investigation by looking at the available scale drawings. Problem is that (like all scale plans) they are artist interpretations, so one can’t place too much faith in their accuracy. But as far as I can determine, the drawings suggest that the Hastings and Halifax wings and inboard engine position are identical, but outboard of that engine the Hastings wing adopts a sharper taper which increases still further outboard of the outer engine – and incorporates a longer span outer wing too. That seems to be it in essence, but it’s hard to determine if the engines are indeed in precisely the same positions on both aircraft. I guess all of the previous posts do at least confirm that the old story of the Hastings having the same wing as the Halifax certainly wasn’t true!

In the absence of any reply to post #134 I’m afraid the topic dropped off my radar and I did not pursue this any further.

I would need to check at NAM to see if anyone else did anything – I’m visiting on Wednesday so I’ll ask the question. I might also try and take a look at the Hastings AP (assuming there’s one) in the Archive.

Struggling a bit with measuring at Newark – is it still required? 😮

I’d certainly be interested to know if this issue has been resolved. The question of how the Hastings wing (and engine placement) differs from the Halifax is one that has floated around for years, and yet there doesn’t seem to be a reliable answer.

Oh dear…!:D

You cannot possibly measure or photo Friday yesterday …. It was Sunday yesterday …… :diablo::diablo: well it was here ….. maybe different uup norf.

Keith 😀

That’s just mean. Especially when it was awarded posthumously…!

You are to be stripped of your golden tape measure:p

Apologies all, I didn’t get chance to measure or photograph Friday yesterday 😮