Halifax W1048 recovery footage in colour.

Hi All,
Why thank you Paul….:eagerness:

Geoff.

Water conditions combined with original build and paint specification obviously play a part in the preservation process.

Anerobic fresh water is ideal – look at the Loch Ness wellington

Water conditions combined with original build and paint specification obviously play a part in the preservation process. The Heinkel 115 recovered in Norway a few years ago is amazing! The paint looks almost factory fresh!

He115 8L + FH Nose and Engine is put in the exhebition erea by Ernst Knutson, on Flickr

He115 8L + FH Tail section by Ernst Knutson, on Flickr

He115 8L + FH Sections in wather tank by Ernst Knutson, on Flickr

In an ideal world we need two of every recovered type, one to keep and one to restore, of course this isn’t possible.
Just suppose a Whitley or Stirling rose out of a lake, surely as the only one of it’s type it should be left in as found condition?
Personally I think the restoration team at Cosford have plenty to do and I would not want them distracted from the Hampden, Wellington and the rusty German thing. Once they are complete restoration of the Stirling tail section with rear turret would be my preference.

Hi All,
Cebro,
Many thanks for that video.:eagerness: Here’s the stupid question of the day here, could that Halifax have been restored to flight if the money was available at the time or is that a fantasy question ?

Geoff.

Not a stupid question at all…. Just need money. Lots of it

However.

This Halifax could never have been restored to flight as there would have been no original material left making it a new build. Everyone would then call it a replica etc…

However if it had been a Spitfire recovered from a beach or crash site then yes it could have been restored to flight as an all original Spit…

(I’ll get my coat…. Put my tin hat on and dodge the flak).

Hi All,
DaveF68,
Cheers matey! To my mind the RAFM could help so many other projects that have possibly stalled for lack of certain items, the RAFM will never see through to the end restorations of what they have accumulated over the years. The vast amount of hidden gems tucked away at various sites I dare say in an ideal world where money is no object they could chug on with one restoration after another but they keep hold of these artefacts like a stockpile of nuts kept by squirrels.
The copious amount of artefacts that would so benefit other restorations by them donating even dare I say selling to these projects IMO would create a pool of money to restore more relevant aircraft or artefacts that are scarcer than rocking horse do-do that should be on show. What do you think ?

Geoff.

Hi All,
Cebro,
Many thanks for that video.:eagerness: Here’s the stupid question of the day here, could that Halifax have been restored to flight if the money was available at the time or is that a fantasy question ? My own opinion is that W1048 would have been better preserved in a fully restored state rather than how she is at the moment, having said that was the money available at the time ? and did this influence the RAF Museums final derision on what state she should be in ?…….:confused:

Geoff.

There’s nothing you can’t do with enough money, as various Spitfire and Hurricane ‘rebuilds’ have shown. How much of the original W1048 would have been left is questionable. Availability of drawings and engines would have been the main factor, assuming sufficient resources.

Restored to a proper static condition would have been much morerelevant, but the RAFM has never been flush with resources

Hi All,
Cebro,
Many thanks for that video.:eagerness: Here’s the stupid question of the day here, could that Halifax have been restored to flight if the money was available at the time or is that a fantasy question ? My own opinion is that W1048 would have been better preserved in a fully restored state rather than how she is at the moment, having said that was the money available at the time ? and did this influence the RAF Museums final derision on what state she should be in ?…….:confused:

Geoff.

I agree. Please restore the Halifax. At the very least reinstate the fittings. The Stirling wreckage would make a suitably poignant memorial on display, and so few get to see it in storage.

Markt,
The wing was recovered and lies next to her at Hendon, the engine was not. The wing was still attached when crashing although bent backwards, it broke off when W1048 was dropped on the lakebed due to the recovery, twice!! If the bent forward fuselage was caused by this too I do not know. But she was in a better position after recovery but the conservation process at the time with that dreadful red preservative, but that was all they had then.

I think that Hendon has to have a restored Halifax on display to complement the Lancaster. Otherwise it’s a graphic image of the famous Lancaster in pristibe condition and the poor also served Halifax lying around as a derelict wreck. Not to mention the absense of a Stirling ( or restored sections thereof). That is what the younger generaties thinks. And the RAFM has an educational function to give the correct story.
Cees

And put some lights on her!

The Hendon museum is like being inside a cavern! If to prevent damage by high intensity light, it seems going a bit far.

The missing wing and engine were never recovered, as far as I know.

Personally I’d agree with a restoration – except for the damaged wing. I don’t find the unrestored state at all poignant. It’s just decay from where it was left underwater. Nothing to do with war damage – just water damage. Same with the Dornier. Left alone, it’s just a hulk.

Thanks Cees , Great film, I used to have a book called ‘The Halifax File’ which had the history of every Halifax, I seem to recall there were a great many other Halifax aircraft in lakes all over Europe.
If I was going to restore W1048 I wouldn’t rebuild the damage to the outer wing as this is why It crash landed and that would be rubbing out Its history but I would put It back to the condition as It landed on the ice when the crew got out but before It sank through the ice.

I wouldn’t push for a full restoration, though that fully restored example in Canada looks great. Looking at the colour photographs and footage of the recovery, it seems that the paintwork still retained its original hues when recovered from the lake bed. W1048 now has an odd coppery/brown hue and appears to be missing a lot more cockpit Plexiglas, to give but one example, than when recovered. Both are symptomatic of steps taken to either restore or stabilise the airframe, but neither really do it full justice, in my opinion.

I’ve always felt W1048 makes a highly poignant memorial in her unrestored state. I also don’t feel there is any compelling reason to restore her now that we have NA337 and LV907. Still, I appreciate it’s not a question where there is a right or wrong answer.

Would it be fair to say conservation has evolved quite a bit since the 70’s.

I’m guessing they don’t use Creosote any more. :stupid:

Would it be fair to say conservation has evolved quite a bit since the 70’s.

Where are all the parts, do they even survive in deep storage?

I agree Cees. I understand why they put her on display like that but I would like to see the missing parts returned to make her look more complete.

Peter,
She is still in good shape. Now that the Dornier is being preserved IMHO W1048 should be properly restored. NA337 was in very much worse condition.
Cees