Has Formula 1 just killed itself in the US ?

Recently, an idea to host a non-championship race at Indiannapolis was put forward by the teams which failed to take the start in the USGP. However, the plan was turned down by Indiannapolis Raceway’s owner when he announced that they needed to focus on next year’s race.

NYT – Any and all racing is respected, at least by the guys who’ve been involved in it.

I’ve raced karts (and still do) although never pulled up any trees, and have also taken Clio Cups, Caterham 7’s, Elises, Integras, Audi TT’s, FPA’s and various other toys round various circuits. By no means would I consider myself ‘a racer’, but I feel I’ve had enough of an insight to qualify my opinion.

Certainly after taking FPA’s round a track a few times, my admiration for F1 drivers has grown immensely. I certainly wouldn’t laugh at F1 in terms of driver ability, although the organisation wouldn’t be exempt from a degree of ridicule…

Yeah, its turned from respected racing to lets have a laugh and turn on the F1. One good point though, this season Schumaker is not winning! 😮

Yep, and how many have come the other way, from CART champs to F1 champs? That’s a genuine question, I don’t know the answer. However, I suspect there aren’t many, and there’s a very good reason why. Oval racing and circuit racing are two very different types of driving.

Ovals are all about building up driver tolerance to exceptionally high g forces in one direction while maintaining control of the car at higher speeds and more exacting lines than any other form of racing. The consequences of getting it just marginally wrong are phenomenal. I certainly wouldn’t want to try Ovals.

‘Normal’ circuit racing is a mixture of variable speedranges and varying degrees of turns, both to left and right. The g forces that the driver is subjected to are less sustained than on Ovals, but change far quicker, and require the body to react faster and generally be more resilient. I’ve done ‘normal’ circuits, and they’re hard work regardless of what you’re driving. But personally, I’d feel more comfortable on them because you generally have more chance of getting away with it if it all goes pear shaped, with large open run off areas, gravel traps, chicanes, etc.

Bottom line is, the argument as to whether F1 or CART drivers are any better than the other, is a bit of a red herring. They are both better than the other, in their chosen field. And it takes an exceptional level of talent for anyone to excel in both.

I pretty much agree with most of that. But I think the differences go deeper than oval vs track (CART races on tracks as well). In CART you have a limited number of engine makers who must offer their engines to a number of teams, a limited number of chassis makers, and less high tech. As a result, CART is more about drivers and and less about team designers and engineers, compared to F1. I’m not saying that’s necessarily good or bad, but it does prevent the dominant team(s) syndrome so apparant in F1.

Yep, well that’s one.

Yep, and how many have come the other way, from CART champs to F1 champs? That’s a genuine question, I don’t know the answer. However, I suspect there aren’t many, and there’s a very good reason why. Oval racing and circuit racing are two very different types of driving.

Ovals are all about building up driver tolerance to exceptionally high g forces in one direction while maintaining control of the car at higher speeds and more exacting lines than any other form of racing. The consequences of getting it just marginally wrong are phenomenal. I certainly wouldn’t want to try Ovals.

‘Normal’ circuit racing is a mixture of variable speedranges and varying degrees of turns, both to left and right. The g forces that the driver is subjected to are less sustained than on Ovals, but change far quicker, and require the body to react faster and generally be more resilient. I’ve done ‘normal’ circuits, and they’re hard work regardless of what you’re driving. But personally, I’d feel more comfortable on them because you generally have more chance of getting away with it if it all goes pear shaped, with large open run off areas, gravel traps, chicanes, etc.

Bottom line is, the argument as to whether F1 or CART drivers are any better than the other, is a bit of a red herring. They are both better than the other, in their chosen field. And it takes an exceptional level of talent for anyone to excel in both.

Mansell?

Yep, well that’s one.

Interstingly, he won the 92 F1 drivers championship with 9 wins from 16 races. In the 93 CART series he won 5 out of 15.

Such as who?

Mansell?

An F1 Champ seems to be able to go over the pond and do well,.

Such as who?

Maybe this is what open wheel racing needed in Europe, a shot in the arm with a dose of reality, maybe finally someone will stand up to Max Mosely and his jack booted F1 henchmen

Hey Dhfan DC did say he wanted to race when they were on the parade lap he radioed in a said he wanted to race despite what the rest of the teams were doing.

I agree with most of what Steve said, but not the bit about DC racing.

After McLaren (and the other teams) had been told in writing by Michelin that their tyres weren’t safe I don’t see they had any option but to withdraw.

With today’s hearing I believe Mosley and his cronies have just signalled the end of Formula 1 and confirmed the GPWC will go ahead in 2008

While it would be bad day if some one seriously crashed, but I thought F1 cars were the pinnacle of technology and safety. I agree with DC and are a fan of him, but DC knew the risks, as all the other drivers, thats what makes them RACE CAR DRIVERS! Did I see some nasty crashes at Indy 500 sure, but Are the teams implying that there cars are not safe enough? Let me remind you that Ayrton Senna god rest his soul was killed at permament road course. as well as Roland Ratzenberger no one remembers him right?

Why do you think that Jaques Villanueve did just ok? He won races his rookie year in F1, won the championship the next year, and prior to F1 won at Indy. Are saying that Nigel Mansell was better than JV? Nigel won the championship his rookie year but had a hard time his sophmore year and left for Willliams. JV had the same problem. The year he won the F1 Champoinship was the last year for the factory backed Renault with Williams. The very next year they went privatized ” Mechachrome” engines and were not competitive that year.

As far as Motogp is concerned I like it a lot, but what about Freddie Spencer, & Kenny Roberts? anyone :confused: 😎

IMHO would you be in an uproar if Bridgestone cars would have backed out i.e. Minardi, Jordan. and Ferrari over a tire safety issue. Just food for thought, and Iam not trying to start a flame war 🙂

Guys, I’ve come into this one very late – we were away on holiday and today is the first chance I’ve had to really have a look at what happened… and I’m astounded.

Astounded that Formula One has sunk this low.

Astounded that only six cars lined up on the grid.

Astounded that David Coultard’s impassioned pleas to his team to allow him to race, were ignored.

Astounded that charges have followed for the seven teams who pulled their drivers out of the race.

Astounded that the race was not stopped when the crowd hurled bottles etc onto the track.

Astounded that it’s going to take until September for the FIA to think of ‘penalties’ for the teams who pulled out.

But most of all, I’m astounded that there was a perceived safety issue, which was blatantly ignored by the organisers, in the interests of money.

One wonders… what if the teams HAD raced, and what if a driver had crashed, fatally? Mosley and Ecclestone on Manslaughter charges…

Thankfully, the only fatality from Sunday 19th, appears to be Formula One itself. And not before time.

Since when has Brazil been in Europe DHLdr? 🙂 Fittipaldi, Gugelmin and Boesel were all South Americans and didn’t do particularly well in F1 either – Fabi is/was a solid, dependable team driver and Johannson lost his edge after some quite nasty experiences (hitting a deer at 190mph at Hockenheim + some big crashes in CART).

An F1 Champ seems to be able to go over the pond and do well, but then Jaques Villeneuve came to F1 and did ok.

MotoGP is where it’s at – F1 has lost all that made it great.

JC
Been quiet cos I’m busy..

Hey Nermal, & Flying Chick. I would like to respond to your thoughts.

First off while it is true that American drivers have not fared so well in F1 is simple we are not commited to living in Europe, nothing wrong with Europe, that is what happened to Mikey in ’93. He thought he could live in the U.S., and race in Europe, plus he had a teammate that took the most attention away from Mike’s side of the team. Are you saving that American drivers have not succeeded in F1? How’ bout Mario Andretti. Phil Hill, Carrol Shelby, Dan Gurney which he raced his own chassis. How’ bout Euro drivers that didn’t make in America such as Teo Fabi, Christian Fittipaldi, Maurcio Guglemin, Stefan Johansan, Raoul Boesel just to name a few.

2nd in response to Flying Chick, says that F1 came to America only to gain a financial windfall, while that is true as well, how is it that America has one of the largest attendances during the season? As I recall Bernie is not too fond of the British Grand Prix and could face the chopping block in the future. 😉

Why not put the driver back in the car? Why can’t they use sticky tires are the speeds that fast, have they really slowed down that much on grooved tires? Why not put shifters like CART and IRL instead of paddle shifter which seemed to me like an automatic? Ban driver aids such as launch control, and traction control, govern the rpms produced by the motors to let’s say 13,000 rpms , freeze technological progress for 2 yrs, and finally lets see some passing and not just in the pits,

I could go on and on, but I’m getting a cramp inhand and can no longer type!
Just my .02 worth 🙂

Mosley announced today that all seven team principals who made the decision no to race at Indy would have to appear before him and explain their reasons for taking such decisions. Unless satisfactory explanations can be provided, teams may incur penalties ranging from reprimands to points being taken away all the way to being disqualified from the championship permanently. The last one seems a little rash!
Anyone care to speculate what penalties each team might receive!
On the other hand, Michelin has decided to go ahead and reinburse certain costs (Not sure which ones) to those who were in attendance at Indiannapolis for the USA Grand Prix. As well, Michelin will purchase twenty thounsand tickets and will hand them out to fans for next years race. A good way to start fixing the problem!

Hey guys and gals, I heard on SpeedChannel that if the Michelin shod teams are fined or penalized heavily that will sit out or boycott the race Magny-Cors. There you have it folks, if they decide to boycott, it looks like they’ll be handing a certain German driver his 8th title, hmmm…..perhaps? Sure greatness :diablo:

Both Ecclestone and Mosley are responsible for the amount of turmoil F1 has witnessed in recent years. They should seriously take a long hard look at how badly F1 is viewed worldwide and try to overhaul the championship. Unfortunately, the amount of money they generate for themselves will cloud their judgement and eventually, the F1 circus will disappear to be replaced by GPWC. Ferrari could end up being forced to move over to the opposition and Mosley and Ecclestone will find themselves trying to figure out where everything went wrong for them.
These two clowns need to go away and allow fresh minds to take over a sport which had mythical proportions years ago. It is unfortunate money can twist your mind once it pours into ones accounts with almost relentlessly!

The more Mosley waves the big stick the more certainty the teams are going to tell him to go forth and multiply when the current agreement runs out.

Money has certainly been a huge part of it. With the exception of Ferrari and Toyota, I’m sure it’s challenging to say the least to raise enough advertising sponsorship to fund an F1 team. In the meantime, Ecclestone is laughing all the way to several banks.

I suspect Mosley is now taking over from Ecclestone as the biggest problem.

Not especially new news Rob, but fair enough to note.

As you say F1 appears to be in some danger of pulling itself apart. The rival GPWC (the acronym being used for this mooted rival manufacturers series) may or may not come to pass. The real issue is the bargaining position – with the main gripe being money (as in Bernie gets too much of the revenue split) and the secondary gripe being the frequency of rule changes (effected and enforced by the FIA). The result is a power tussle between the teams, the FIA and Bernie as F1 supremo and primary contractor. What happened Sunday week ago may not have happened had there not been this antagonistic/posturing background.