Hawker fueselage tubes

For the Typhoon spar fittings they call for a “stamping” which would be a forging. Typically for a forging I would question building new with CNC from billet as it would reduce strength by eliminating the continuous grain structure that gives a forging its strength (like in a crankshaft). With the case of these parts there is a note that shows you can use form cutters for cutting the entire fork area; this would cut through your grain on a forging in the same method as it will when machined from billet. I don’t think there would be any issues using CNC and still having an airworthy part. In wartime the stampings would use up less material than billet and save a great deal of machining time, in the case of new build it doesn’t make sense to forge.

Ian

For the Typhoon spar fittings they call for a “stamping” which would be a forging. Typically for a forging I would question building new with CNC from billet as it would reduce strength by eliminating the continuous grain structure that gives a forging its strength (like in a crankshaft). With the case of these parts there is a note that shows you can use form cutters for cutting the entire fork area; this would cut through your grain on a forging in the same method as it will when machined from billet. I don’t think there would be any issues using CNC and still having an airworthy part. In wartime the stampings would use up less material than billet and save a great deal of machining time, in the case of new build it doesn’t make sense to forge.

Ian

Ian/Pat,
I think the cast that the article/person was referring to was the spar lugs. As you know there are 8 rather large castings to fit into the 3″ carry throughs. Looking at the drawings they were roughly ‘stamped’ to shap and then the final details/finishing made. I have been looking into this for years and they are just a little too big for the contacts I have so would need a company with larger equipment.

As for the tubes there are a number that are rolled, they have different specs e.g. A.Std 183/Y, A.Std 183/W etc.

2 1/4″ (14 swg),
2″ (17 swg),
1 1/4″ (17 & 20 swg),
1 1/2″ (17 & 20 swg),
1 3/8″ (17 swg),
1 3/4″ (20 swg)

Will be mailing later Ian/Pat

I have just been to MAN Diesel’s [ Paxman’s Colchester] open day [ my son is an engineer there] and they have just started to new build the big Paxman diesel engines the castings [ quite big ] are done by Hadleigh castings [Suffolk].

Ian/Pat,
I think the cast that the article/person was referring to was the spar lugs. As you know there are 8 rather large castings to fit into the 3″ carry throughs. Looking at the drawings they were roughly ‘stamped’ to shap and then the final details/finishing made. I have been looking into this for years and they are just a little too big for the contacts I have so would need a company with larger equipment.

As for the tubes there are a number that are rolled, they have different specs e.g. A.Std 183/Y, A.Std 183/W etc.

2 1/4″ (14 swg),
2″ (17 swg),
1 1/4″ (17 & 20 swg),
1 1/2″ (17 & 20 swg),
1 3/8″ (17 swg),
1 3/4″ (20 swg)

Will be mailing later Ian/Pat

I have just been to MAN Diesel’s [ Paxman’s Colchester] open day [ my son is an engineer there] and they have just started to new build the big Paxman diesel engines the castings [ quite big ] are done by Hadleigh castings [Suffolk].

Pat1968,

Tried to PM you back but your mailbox is full.

Ian

Hi Ian sorry about that my inbox is now empty Pat

Pat1968,

Tried to PM you back but your mailbox is full.

Ian

Hi Ian sorry about that my inbox is now empty Pat

Ian/Pat,
I think the cast that the article/person was referring to was the spar lugs. As you know there are 8 rather large castings to fit into the 3″ carry throughs. Looking at the drawings they were roughly ‘stamped’ to shap and then the final details/finishing made. I have been looking into this for years and they are just a little too big for the contacts I have so would need a company with larger equipment.

As for the tubes there are a number that are rolled, they have different specs e.g. A.Std 183/Y, A.Std 183/W etc.

2 1/4″ (14 swg),
2″ (17 swg),
1 1/4″ (17 & 20 swg),
1 1/2″ (17 & 20 swg),
1 3/8″ (17 swg),
1 3/4″ (20 swg)

Will be mailing later Ian/Pat

Ian/Pat,
I think the cast that the article/person was referring to was the spar lugs. As you know there are 8 rather large castings to fit into the 3″ carry throughs. Looking at the drawings they were roughly ‘stamped’ to shap and then the final details/finishing made. I have been looking into this for years and they are just a little too big for the contacts I have so would need a company with larger equipment.

As for the tubes there are a number that are rolled, they have different specs e.g. A.Std 183/Y, A.Std 183/W etc.

2 1/4″ (14 swg),
2″ (17 swg),
1 1/4″ (17 & 20 swg),
1 1/2″ (17 & 20 swg),
1 3/8″ (17 swg),
1 3/4″ (20 swg)

Will be mailing later Ian/Pat

Not sure of the specifics with regards to that article, but it was most likely with regard to the T.50 used in a good deal of Hawker tube structure. It is hard to find unless you want to pay for a mill run, there are work-arounds that resolve the issue. I did see one article regarding problems faced for a Typhoon rebuild that stated the spar carry throughs would be a problem because they were large castings; it might have been a result of a mix up in data with the Tempest.

Ian

Not sure of the specifics with regards to that article, but it was most likely with regard to the T.50 used in a good deal of Hawker tube structure. It is hard to find unless you want to pay for a mill run, there are work-arounds that resolve the issue. I did see one article regarding problems faced for a Typhoon rebuild that stated the spar carry throughs would be a problem because they were large castings; it might have been a result of a mix up in data with the Tempest.

Ian

A slightly off-topic question…
In FlyPast several issues ago, there was a story about Hawker Restorations. In it, they seemed to say that certain metal stock (not tubes) was in short supply and would be the limiting factor for future rebuilds/restorations.

Did I understand that correctly?
Is so, what is the item they’re short of?

A slightly off-topic question…
In FlyPast several issues ago, there was a story about Hawker Restorations. In it, they seemed to say that certain metal stock (not tubes) was in short supply and would be the limiting factor for future rebuilds/restorations.

Did I understand that correctly?
Is so, what is the item they’re short of?

Pat1968,

Tried to PM you back but your mailbox is full.

Ian

Pat1968,

Tried to PM you back but your mailbox is full.

Ian

Hi Ian that is exactly what i need many thanks pm sent

Hi Ian that is exactly what i need many thanks pm sent

Typhoon tube structure

I just had another look, 3″ spar carry through members some 10 gauge and some 8 gauge. 2.25″ 14 gauge is the primary large dia tube used for the Typhoon as well. I can’t speak for the rest of the Hawker types, but 2.25 would be the largest tube used for the Tornado, Typhoon and Tempest if you are looking for the squared items.

Ian

Typhoon tube structure

I just had another look, 3″ spar carry through members some 10 gauge and some 8 gauge. 2.25″ 14 gauge is the primary large dia tube used for the Typhoon as well. I can’t speak for the rest of the Hawker types, but 2.25 would be the largest tube used for the Tornado, Typhoon and Tempest if you are looking for the squared items.

Ian

Typhoon tube structure

The biggest tube structural component for the Typhoon would be the spar carry through, they are 3.005″ to 3.010″ OD and 10 gauge wall thickness. The spar carry through is not “squared” as per the typical Hawker tubular design though, with a quick check I have located a squared 2.25″ 14 gauge tube used in the Tornado engine mount. I can look deeper into the matter if interested. The spar carry through would be the biggest tube used though, and only applicable to the Typhoon and Tornado as the Tempest uses a Cast member in its place.

Ian

Typhoon tube structure

The biggest tube structural component for the Typhoon would be the spar carry through, they are 3.005″ to 3.010″ OD and 10 gauge wall thickness. The spar carry through is not “squared” as per the typical Hawker tubular design though, with a quick check I have located a squared 2.25″ 14 gauge tube used in the Tornado engine mount. I can look deeper into the matter if interested. The spar carry through would be the biggest tube used though, and only applicable to the Typhoon and Tornado as the Tempest uses a Cast member in its place.

Ian