Hawker Henley Named After?

That’s the beauty of this forum, sometimes you get answers to questions you never knew you’d asked

Bugle is a small town in Cornwall.

1927 system – multi-engine bombers begin with B. Multi includes twins.

Thinking further about Boulton & Paul’s naming policy for their medium bombers, they stuck to the party line with Bourges (French town), Bolton, Bodmin, Sidestrand and Overstrand, but before the Sidestrand there was the Bugle (7 prototypes). How did that name get in there ?

Yes, in the context of the entire decision-making process.

The RNZAF Vildebeests never had torpedoes. Our Vildebeest/Vincents all had tanks rather than torps (possibly some had neither, we used a lot for training before better types were available) to give them a useful range. Even with tanks, the raiders that attacked merchants were never spotted.
Attacking a ‘covers down’ raider with a torpedo-armed Vildebeest would have been bad enough, the thought of doing it with bombs is really scary.
http://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/21968/nz-based-vildebeest-vincent-torpedos

I suspect you need to look not at the time of placing the order but the initial expression of interest.

I also suspect that an attack by torpedo-carrying Vildebeests would have done more damage to any surface raider than level bombing from Wellingtons, so perhaps you weren’t so badly off after all…

… The Wellington also fits the 1939 list – though there are two small English places with this name, one in Somerset and one in Shropshire. The New Zealand Wellington is strictly ruled out as being a seaside town, but then this applies to the Sidestrand and Overstrand too. It’s always possible that no-one at the Air Ministry actually realised this.

It would be great to find out the timing of the naming decision vs the significant (for the time) order placed by Wellington for a squadron of them. Which we gifted to the UK on the outbreak of war, leaving our defences against German raiders as the mighty Vickers Vildebeest.

Further to my previous post, I managed to get Wolverhampton Council to name the former entrance road to Wolverhampton Airport (now the entrance to a business park), Overstrand. Without my realising it, until too late, they then named the first side road Weststrand !

Followers of Sid Kipper will be aware that there used to be three villages: Sidestrand, Overstrand, and Understrand, but for the unfortunate events at the official opening of the flood defences.

Ah – Lady Katharine Mary Montagu Douglas Scott, Viscountess Hampden, christened the first flight at Radlett aerodrome in 1938

So named for a person for one version of an aircraft and for a town for another. Rules are meant to be broken, I suppose!

The HP Hampden is another oddity (in many ways!). It’s Napier-powered deriviative is clearly named after the town of Hereford but Hampden? The towns of Hampden, New Zealand or Hampden, Canada? John Hampden? Hampden Park?

It has been recorded that the name Sidestrand was used because the Director of Technical Development at the Air Ministry came from there. Boulton & Paul did then get their first production contract for medium bombers, but no doubt this was entirely co-incidental. The Overstrand was logically named after a nearby village, but a further development of the design, with retractable undercarriage etc, would have been called the Superstrand, which rather destroys the logic of the sequence. I am reminded of the time that VW started naming their cars after tropical winds (Scirrocco, Passat, and then Golf -which is the German for Gulf) They didn’t think they could sell a car in America named after the game, so they changed the name to Rabbit in the US. Then they decided a game wasn’t such a bad idea after all, and named the next car Polo.

Love the 1918 system – that things were still really in their infancy is shown by there being a category for ‘fighters with more than five seats’ (Metals, Rocks)

That would explain the 8-seater Gloster Granite interceptor.

According to Gordon Wansborough-White (corrected spelling) Sidestrand and Overstrand fit the 1932 category of Geography-Land. That they were not inland towns doesn’t seem to have mattered. The Battle also falls into this category. The Blenheim remains the odd-man-out, although it does fit within the 1939 list as a place associated with British history. Perhaps the 1939 list was an acknowledgement of what had been accepted earlier, rather than intended as a new ruling. The Wellington also fits the 1939 list – though there are two small English places with this name, one in Somerset and one in Shropshire. The New Zealand Wellington is strictly ruled out as being a seaside town, but then this applies to the Sidestrand and Overstrand too. It’s always possible that no-one at the Air Ministry actually realised this.

The Wellington was orginally to be called the Crecy – however I always understood that it was named after the New Zealand city of Wellington rather than the Duke. No idea why the BP names don’t fit !

Neither the 1927 nor 1932 systems explains the day bombers Sidestrand and Overstrand, let alone the later ones.

I always thought the Wellington was named after the Duke of, as was the Vickers (Arthur) Wellesley.

Barracuda, Swordfish, Tarpan, Albacore, are all game fish. Torpedo is a species of ray fish.

And for interest, the 1918 and 1927 naming conventions

The 1918 system was based on the meaning of names as codewords and was used until 1927. Up to 1921 alliteration of aircraft name and Manufacturer was obligatory but was often continued thereafter by some manufacturers.

Landplanes

Fighter Zoological, Vegetable, Mineral (terrestial)
Single-seater: Insects, birds and reptiles
Two-seater: Mammals
Three-seater: Flowers
Four-seater: Shrubs
Five-seater: Trees
Over five seats: Metals, Rocks

Bomber: Geographical (inland)
Single-Seater: Italian towns
Two-seater: British towns
Three-seater: French towns
More than 3, under 5 ton: Towns in colonies and dependencies
5 to 10 tons: Towns in Asia
10 to 15 tons: Towns in Africa

Heavy Armoured Machines Proper Names (male)
Under 2 tons: Mythological Greek
2 to 5 tons: Mythological Roman
5 to 10 tons: Mythological Eastern and Egyptian
10 to 20 tons: Mythological Northern Europe

Seaplanes

Fighter: Zoological (marine)
Single-seater: River fish
Two-seater: Saltwater fish
Three-seater: Shellfish

Bomber Geographical (seaboard)
Single-Seater: Italian towns
Two-seater: British towns
Three-seater: French towns
More than 3, under 5 tons: Towns in colonies and dependencies
5 to 10 tons: Towns in Asia
10 to 15 tons: Towns in Africa

Patrol and anti-submarine: Proper Names (female)
Under 2 tons: Mythological Greek
2 to 5 tons: Mythological Roman
5 to 10 tons: Mythological Eastern and Egyptian
10 to 20 tons: Mythological Northern Europe

The 1927 RAF Naming System
Category Names beginning with
1. Fighters, land: F
2. Fighters, fleet: N (maritime significance)
3. Bombers, single-engined: P
4. Bombers, multi-engined: B
5. Bombers, torpedo: M (maritime significance)
6. Army co-operation: A
7. Spotter & reconnaissance: S
8. Coastal reconnaissance: R
9. Troop carriers: C
10. Training aircraft: T
11. General Purpose Aircraft: G
12. Fighter Reconnaissance: O (maritime significance)

The inland town theme applied specifically to night bombers only.

1932 RAF Naming System

Fighters: General words indicating speed, activity or aggressiveness

Bombers:
a) Day: Animals except felidae
b) Army co-operation: Classical names
c) Night: Inland towns of the British Empire or towns associated with the RAF
d) General Purpose: British historical names
e) Transport: General towns and seaports of the British Empire

Flying boats: Coastal towns and seaports of the British Empire

Fleet Air Arm:
a) Fighters: Mythological names
b) Fighter reconnaissance: Names of seabirds
c) Torpedo bombers: Names of oceans, seas and estuaries
d) Spotter reconnaissance: Names of marine animals

Trainers : Words indicating tuition and places of education