Hawker Hurricane Instrument Panel Help Please

sorry for late participation to this thread. Great work there Ross!! I have quite a few drawings so if you havesome specific wants shout out. I am a bit slow at mo due to lots of other commitments. But I get there in the end. I need to sort my labels!! I have some original crash parts

Sorry Ron, no drawing.

I did a bit of reverse engineering to get a close pattern for my static.

Laid out the port, starboard and bfp on a board then drew round the outer edge. The mounting holes centres are 0.25″ in from the panel outer edge.

Photo measurements suggest a mounting flange depth of 1″ with panel overlap of 0.5″

This was added to the outside edge of the panels and the curve extrapolated at the top between the port and starboard panels.

From this a 1″ L section was formed into the hoop and offered up. The cross member is 1″ square section.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]229317[/ATTACH]

Regards
Ross

Ross,

By any chance would you have the Hawker drawings for the instrument panel support? This would be the horizontal tube and the hoop that is former #1?

Thanks,

Ron

The defined standard by Ministry of Supply was for 2C to be used for zeros and Os but quite a few subcontractors used similar master copy tiles to augment 2C sets when they got worn down.

I found it most common with contractors that previously supplied motor industry and public transport.

The most common use of rogue Os is on Halifax panels by LRT sourced from the font commissioned by Frank Pick for London Underground i.e. Johnston Underground type face

Also seen tiles from Ministry of Transport (Llewellyn-Smith alphabet) used in UK but looking closer think that the Canadian typeface has it’s roots in early FHWA from US.

Regards
Ross

The label font in #7 and 10 looks different to yours Ross. The letter ‘O’ is more rounded. I’ve noticed this on Spitfire labels too. Does anyone know the name of this font?

I’ve never seen it reproduced properly

I’ve done two examples of the “SWITCH ON BEFORE” label using the 1.56″ between centres of the mounting holes as key dimension.

Makes the following reduction for 3/4″ Type C copy masters – 1 to 8.125 reduction.

Looking at photos of UK produced wartime labels and the Canadian version shows a slight difference due to the labour skill used.

The UK versions were by the book in terms of word spacing and line spacing (135% of text height) due to being typeset by a skilled production operator. The Canadian version you have posted contains the tweaks of a skilled compositor to make the text more readable eg second line has variable word spacing and line spacing is 200% of text height. The Canadian version of labels also uses punctuation that was generally omitted from UK produced ones.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]229237[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]229238[/ATTACH]

The dimensions and settings above will hopefully give a start to anyone doing the engraving exercise again.

Regards
Ross

Perfect. My drawings now completely readable. And thank you for explaining the difference between the Types!

R

“L3 or DTD 390”

Regards
Ross

One last question about the drawing….

The material is 16 G Light Alloy. What is the specification in the next box?

Cheers,

Ron

Great stuff gents,

I’ll start making plastic dust tomorrow!

Ron – optimistic of the Canadians – 500 MPH on the ASI, a wee bit more in a dive and she could have gone supersonic at height!

No B Type only L Type – Type A was standard Upper Case font, used where there was no space problems.
Type L was lower case to be used with Type A.

Type C was condensed and used where space was at a premium.

Came in various master copy sizes but the following at 3/4″ was the most widely used.

110/32 2A 3/4″ A set of 128 capital letters, figures, stops, etc., with spacing’s sufficient for all ordinary purposes.

110/33 2C 3/4″ Same assortment as No. 2A but narrower style

Regards
Ross

“SWITCH ON
BEFORE TAKING OFF”

This is a Canadian panel but the label is the same. What’s the difference between Type A and Type C? Was there a Type B and where was it used?

Cheers,

Ron

The Pressure Head Heater switch on our 1B Typhoon reads:

It’s reasonable to assume that the legend on your outstanding label is the same…(or, at least; the first part of the instruction.) Hawkers tended to be a tad boring in those instances!

Cheers Ron,

Just the job – and I can see a partial “SWITCH ON…TAKING..” for my other missing label (looks like Type A, 1/8″ 135% line spacing)

The Supercharger one appears to be Type C, 1/8″, 150 or 175% line spacing – I’ll sort that out with a few trials.

(Type A is 3 units high to 2 units width, Type C is 2 units high to 1 unit width)

The small desk top pantograph I use is limited on the engraving platter and engravers master copy so it will take a bit of creative typesetting.

And just to confuse things another standard panel layout for a single starter button/ starboard starter mag switch to add to the catalogue of fits!

Regards
Ross

These photos may help.

Ron

To extend tool life the trial labels are Black ABS Plastic, Smooth Sheet, 3mm, paint filled for the moment.

I do a 2x final size of each text block which allows me to quickly redo in 1:2 reduction in whatever material I finally select without undue worry on replication of line spacing and text layout.

I think that the final labels will either be 2mm ABS or 16 Gauge Alloy ( needs to be thick enough to take engraving of not be less than .010″ deep and provide the same packing thickness behind the u/c indicator as the correction card holder).

The labels are a mixture of Type A (normal) and Type C (condensed) and quite a challenge to typeset initially. The rule of thumb is that on the Pilots Notes piccys if you can read the smaller text 1/8″ then it’s Type A but if the same size is blurred then it’s Type C.

Two things I’m short on is a good image of the warning label below the mag switches, above the supercharger control (I think it’s 5 lines of text below the Warning and contains the word “atmosphere” and the very small single line of text on the port panel just above it.

There are a few blurred partials on the net but none that I can use to typeset a reproduction.

Regards
Ross

Wow! That’s a huge help Ross. Thank you so much.
What gauge of material are you using for the labels? And is it black anodized alloy?

Cheers,

Ron

Cheers Mike,

The devil is in the detail as they say!

The panel is one that I first abandoned because I screwed up with the bending allowance for the inside flange. It ended up 2-3 mm short on the outer edge, you can see that with the outer mounting holes on the u/c indicator and u/c lamp on/off/change over switch being too close to the edge.

I use it now for layout and other dimension checks with some spare instrumentation.

The drawing is for a Mk.II so the 12 hr display clock/blanking plate would be more suitable than the 24 hr one for the early marks.

Of note is that the Hawker Drawing contains a mix of gear provision for the MkI and II.

eg port panel has both Starter and Booster push button provision instead of just the Starter, while the starboard panel has the cutout for the starting mag switch which was more appropriate for the MkI but left and blanked on most MkII with the Booster Coil fit.

Also the starboard panel has three cutout for Fuel Pressure Lamp, rectangular Oil Pressure gauge and small Smiths style circular fuel pressure gauge.

Normally, on survivor panels, if the Fuel Pressure Lamp was fitted it was in a rectangular hole with a cover plate, rather than with a dedicated circular hole and no provision was made for the additional smiths style gauge.

Regards
Ross

Ross, I have an original photo somewhere that shows the 8 Day clock 6A/839 clock you show, so it can be correct along with the 36 hour clocks you mention.
It would appear the later models of Hurricanes and Spitfires for that matter went to the cheaper 36 hour clocks, after using the expensive Swiss made 8 day Clocks, in the early days of WW2.
And thats a very nice panel you have put together

Kind Regards Mike

.11″ dimension between face of panel and max depth of depression. (allows panel to sit flush against support tube and give 0.05″ clearance on edge flange)

.05″ R

.13″ MAX BEND RADII INSIDE OF FLANGES

Just been having a trial of the various engraving labels to see what fits best between Type A and Type C.

Top label for green lamp needs extending under the u/c indicator to pick up mounting holes.

Bottom label for triple switch needs reducing in width to 3/4″ from current 1″

Block and fascia label for starter and booster coil push buttons to be done (mount hole reduced from 1.3″ for rotax switch to 1″ for the type B)

Clock is 24 hr hole filler version rather than correct 12 hr

Regards
Ross[ATTACH=CONFIG]229182[/ATTACH]