Hawkinge Museum

Sorry to say, I agree .Charge for camera = Better security

And if Security is the real issue (which I must say I really doubt), then the bolshie in me, would be tempted to go and record everything (surruptiously, hey it can be done easily with current technology) and publish an inventory list on the Internet! Jsut like someone did to Hawkrigde in Aviation News soon after the Mike Stroud letter anyway!

At the risk of appearing to be a clone of Seaking93! Exactly the same arrangement would be used by us. In fact we had a major article in FP a few months ago. Again coming to some arrangement for either a donation or a fee has been no problem with sensible, enthusiastic photographers and if they are really commercially aware understand that such arrangements benefit both parties.

PDS, does this present you with a problem?

So what do you do when a magazine wants to do a piece on your museum or a photographer wants to take pictures ‘to sell’?

At FAAM the policy is that if a magazine wants to do an article on the museum(as AI did recently) then that is good free publicity for the museum, just think what a double page spread in AI would cost at commercial rates.
But if an individual wants to take photos and make money from them then we would charge a fee or come to some arrangement with the individual on a case by case basis, this has worked very well in the past on numerous occasions.

At Gatwick Aviation Museum we have the same policy as at FAAM Yeovilton and Cobham Hall (as expressed by Seaking93). This has recently changed from no restrictions after we discovered someone making money from pictures without even acknowledging the source!. As a private, non-public funded organisation, we have no problem with people taking photos for private use but when someone makes money from the photos of our exhibits and we receive nothing that is clearly wrong.

So what do you do when a magazine wants to do a piece on your museum or a photographer wants to take pictures ‘to sell’?

At Gatwick Aviation Museum we have the same policy as at FAAM Yeovilton and Cobham Hall (as expressed by Seaking93). This has recently changed from no restrictions after we discovered someone making money from pictures without even acknowledging the source!. As a private, non-public funded organisation, we have no problem with people taking photos for private use but when someone makes money from the photos of our exhibits and we receive nothing that is clearly wrong.

Can someone explain the direct link between pilfering/mindless vandalism and allowing visitors to take photos?

The photo aspect is, preumably, concerned with reducing ‘theft to order’, a much more sophisticated and pre-meditated activity.

Let me just flip this thread around a little.

Whilst on holiday in the US during September 1993 my house was burgled, amongst the items that were stolen were many irreplaceable and treasured personal possessions. After my initial shock and anger had subsided, the first task I undertook was to increase the security of the house, the second was to convince my wife not to move, the third and the most difficult task to fully complete is to trust. After the incident my faith in human nature all but disappeared. If we do go away now, a major consideration is the security of the house.

Mike and his team at Hawkinge like many museums around the UK have suffered over the years from both vandalism and theft, there must have been many times over the years when they have considered closing the museum. After all, they don’t do it for the huge financial gain, they like all of us here are enthuusiasts. Their ‘paranoia’ about photographic equipment has not arisen through choice but through repeated violations of the facility and its exhibits.

Don’t be put off by the negativity of this thread, go and visit this excellent museum and see for yourself. They won’t bite.

Septic.

Well said Septic old chap, the exhibits do speak for themselves. I remember that Tangmere lost several BoB Hurricane grips after it opened…that is just awful.

Perhaps ‘Photography by prior arrangement’ would be a sensible compromise and allow vetting.

Mark

Good idea Septic. Perhaps we should have a forum get-together at Hawkinge this weekend, and see for ourselves?

Geoff

Let me just flip this thread around a little.

Whilst on holiday in the US during September 1993 my house was burgled, amongst the items that were stolen were many irreplaceable and treasured personal possessions. After my initial shock and anger had subsided, the first task I undertook was to increase the security of the house, the second was to convince my wife not to move, the third and the most difficult task to fully complete is to trust. After the incident my faith in human nature all but disappeared. If we do go away now, a major consideration is the security of the house.

Mike and his team at Hawkinge like many museums around the UK have suffered over the years from both vandalism and theft, there must have been many times over the years when they have considered closing the museum. After all, they don’t do it for the huge financial gain, they like all of us here are enthuusiasts. Their ‘paranoia’ about photographic equipment has not arisen through choice but through repeated violations of the facility and its exhibits.

Don’t be put off by the negativity of this thread, go and visit this excellent museum and see for yourself. They won’t bite.

Septic.

Well PDS it will be your fault if Hawkinge loses money and has to close.!!! No jokes aside, you raised a very good point. It is up to the individual, now knowing the rules that the owners of Hawkinge have set if they want to visit.

They have the right to set the rules. We who do not agree with the ‘no camera ban’ have the right not to visit. Cannot say fairer than that.

Dave

Can I just say that when I started this thread I did not intend to stop people visiting the Hawkinge Museum.. Far from it. I visited the museum before the ‘Ban’ and thoroughly enjoyed it and remember it well.

If you are in the Folkstone area and have nothing better to do, visit it. But don’t take your camera, and from what other people have said ‘Don’t talk to the natives’.

I was just interested in peoples view of what they are doing and how it would effect their decision to vist such a museum….

Little did I know……………

I must be in the minority here…Hawkinge is one of my favourite museums – I love it for the wealth of material and information it packs in to a relatively small space, and for it’s Kent/Battle of Britain connection. When I visit museums I personally prefer to absorb what’s on display in front of me, rather than peering at it through a lens, trying to get the best shots I can. It doesn’t matter to me that I cannot take photographs, I would rather learn more about the Battle of Britain and the men and women involved.

On the past two occasions I visited, there were a number of copies of photographs taken by the Museum for sale, which I thought was a good compromise.

Just my thoughts on the matter…

I agree, my view is that I would rather visit Hawkinge without a camera than not at all. As someone who is passionate about the BoB, I am not in the business of cutting off my nose to spite my face!! I do however, have atitter when I see that they have even banned pens and notebooks.

It also says its “in keeping with common practice” (to prevent people using cameras and notepads), is this true of most other museums? I seem to recall there being no such limitation at Duxford, Hendon, Lambeth, Kensington etc etc.

At FAAM Yeovilton and Cobham Hall you are more than welcome to take photographs as certain people on this thread already know for your own private collections, the only restriction is if they are taken for commercial gain, then we expect a fee

I think those that say “If I can’t take my camera I’m not going” are short sighted. You should still take the opportunity to see what the museum has to offer and perhaps learn something.

I’ve been in a lot of great aviation places where I couldn’t take a camera or have a camera with me (usually because I was working)…a tour of SR-71 ops at Beale comes to mind…(fantastic stuff seeingone up close with cockpits open and a chance to ask questions to a crew). Sure it would have been nice to have photos, but I saw some great sights and learned a great deal.

Even though I spend half my time stuck behind a camera when visiting museums, I think I would give them a visit if I was in the area, just to see what all the fuss is about. But whether I would go back again is a different matter.

It doesnt sound a very welcoming place, and I think if I’m in the vicinity again, I’ll go elsewhere with my money-and my camera.

Well just on this page they have lost visitors,most of us would have families and friends with us as well,whose loss is it then.Theres more places that will accept my money than refuse it.

“in keeping with common practice”

Of course it isnt. In my recent email exchange with them museum I was given the distinct impression that I should be grateful that they open the museum at all.

It also says its “in keeping with common practice” (to prevent people using cameras and notepads), is this true of most other museums? I seem to recall there being no such limitation at Duxford, Hendon, Lambeth, Kensington etc etc.