He shot down a Mig15 with a Sea Fury.

What’s wrong with Paul Beaver?

Two;
https://theaviationist.com/2015/01/14/the-most-unusual-mig-killer-the-skyraider-air-to-air-victories-on-north-vietnamese-mig-17s/

Shows what a good pilot can do with an outclassed aircraft.
The following month a Corsair shot down a MiG.
And in Vietnam, I believe a Skyraider was credited with a MiG-17.
And remember unlike a Sea Fury or Corsair, a Skyraider wasn’t a fighter.

And then a Sea Fury turned up…..

[ATTACH=CONFIG]255891[/ATTACH]

many thanks that looks good!

Hi Dave F

For WJ223 I had code ‘106’ which I think Brian Ellis told me (was a while ago so not 100% now where details came from). Peter Davis, one of the other pilots that day, gave me serial WE724, Code 119 although not checked this one

cheers
Chris

I first came across Brian Ellis’s account of events back in 2010 while looking for details of his aircraft WJ223 for a profile after meeting him and Peter Davis at a signing in 2009

And after a quick search it seems FlyPast carried an article around 2001 by Rowland White – see link below on the subject

http://archive.is/2s51P

Chris, did you manage to establish the side code? Would make an interesting model subject (with a new Sea Fury kit on the near horizon!)

Well Rowland White managed to make a mountain out of a molehill with Phoenix Squadron, regardless of how good a ‘dit’ it might be. I’d still like to see what hard evidence was unearthed to underpin this particular claim. And again, why did it take this long?

Not a fan of Paul Beaver?

I first came across Brian Ellis’s account of events back in 2010 while looking for details of his aircraft WJ223 for a profile after meeting him and Peter Davis at a signing in 2009

And after a quick search it seems FlyPast carried an article around 2001 by Rowland White – see link below on the subject

http://archive.is/2s51P

cheers
Chris

….by Paul Beaver……I’ll say no more…

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10166388 (if that link works) recites the article in the Times. Not, as I mis-remembered, new “research”, so much as Ellis giving “his side of the story”.

Paul

I don’t know who did this ‘research’, what source documents they used, nor why it took so long to come to this conclusion, but the general consensus amongst most of those around at the time was that Hoagy was simply credited as Flight Leader on behalf of the others. The popular press grabbed hold of this and attributed the kill to Carmichael.

It sounds to me, with Winkle Brown now gone, as if someone is seeking out a new ‘hero’, regardless of whether in the course of doing so history gets slightly massaged.

when he defeated one in air combat over Pyongyang.

The way things are going, if he is up for it, he may get another chance to increase that score. 🙂

There was an article in the Times a couple of months ago which basically said it had been unclear who had shot it down, so it was credited to Carmichael as section leader, which, it said, was a common method of attributing uncertain kills. Recent research had shown it was Ellis that had fired the fatal shots. in the report in the Times today, Ellis is said to have only been credited with the kill last year.

Paul

If ever there was someone deserving of a back seat flight in a Sea Fury !

I heard recently that there has been some question over who actually got the kill. I can’t remember the details, but it was something about a reconstruction of the dogfight profile which indicated that another member of the formation, not Carmichael, was responsible.

Wasn’t ‘Hoagy’ Carmichael the first?