Head up – Foyles war.

Foyle’s War – further comments

Hi all,

Just found this thread … some interesting comments on the show and the “bouncing bomb” material included.

Clearly the programme makers had some conflict between the fact that the fictitious group depicted was doing the work done by Barnes Wallis and his team, but that the fictitious group had to be clearly not 100% identified with Wallis. They thus fudged the edges a bit to kind of make it all fit (e.g. making the team part of the National Physical Laboratory). The only pure errors I spotted were:
– the Navy man’s moustache (as discussed on this forum).
– the mention of adding wood to “the sphere”, which should have been “cylinder” like the one standing beside him at the time (the basic bomb/mine was cylindrical and it was padded to a spherical shape by adding wooden slats; in early drops, the slats broke away but the cylinder ran on, so the slats were done away with and the bomb was dropped as a cylinder).
– security around the real project was VERY tight … I don’t think “no one knows we’re here” really does it!
– the CGI Lancaster made far too tight a turn after the test drop.
– the test drop was made with the tide out; real drops were made with the tide in so that the bombs could be recovered when the tide went out.

Incidentally, the B/W Lancaster footage was IWM footage of a real drop; the man in the group on the beach waving his arms about is Barnes Wallis himself.

The calculations and graphs on the blackboard in the lab were taken from Wallis’ own handwritten notes of the time. If you look closely, you can see the formula for calculating the lift derived from spinning the cylinder. The graph on the right relates to the single live test drop, so it hadn’t actually happened yet! You see this all better in the “making of” documentary included on the DVD of this episode.

Regards,

Iain.

‘Highball’ was indeed intended for use against the Tirpitz, and 618 Sqn was formed a few days after 617 Sqn to train for ‘Operation Servant’ as it was code-named.

The trials of ‘Highball’ were filmed and parts of it were used in the Dam Busters film, showing the trial attacks on HMS Malaya at Loch Striven.

Such you have a wish to delve further, the book ‘A Most Secret Squadron’ by Des Curtis DFC (ISBN 0 95252 470 8) is well worth a read if you can still get hold of a copy. It details the history of this unit, and it’s use of a rather large gun in the belly to attack shipping with!!:rolleyes:

Hope this helps,
Regards,
Keith

As I recall Mosquitos were planned to be used for a variant of Upkeep called Highball

Something to do with anti-shipping or anti U-boat pens IIRC

Moggy

Against the Tirpitz I think and IIRC mentioned in:

Sweetman, John. (2000) ‘Tirpitz Hunting the Beast Air Attacks on the German Battleship 1940-44’, Sutton Publishing. Stroud, Gloucestershire. ISBN 0-7509-2086-6.

I did wonder if a Mosquito would have been doing the tests?

As I recall Mosquitos were planned to be used for a variant of Upkeep called Highball

Something to do with anti-shipping or anti U-boat pens IIRC

Moggy

Alternative caption….

I can confirm that some aluminium pots and pans were turned into Spitfires.

Mark

“Young member of Hitler Youth poses with the results of the Third Reich’s “Spitfires into Saucepans” campaign”

re

Watching it with my Uncle, who was a genuine wartime evacuee, we both noticed the big gaff:

I queried whether the beach would have been fortified during war time (understatement) to which my Uncle replied mines, barbed wire, pill boxes the lot. And of all beaches to be fortified, HASTINGS!

We also noticed the railings and he confirmed they were all taken away.

I did wonder if a Mosquito would have been doing the tests?

I can confirm that some aluminium pots and pans were turned into Spitfires.

Bet that one whistled past. Oh, better put the lid on it, before I get panned with some cheap pot shots.

Caption….

“Ministry of Aircraft Production realises the public have entirely misunderstood its urgent appeal to turn saucepans into Spitfires….”

ROTFL!

Most of the drive for scrap was a planned method of raising the morale on the home front so that people felt they were helping. The pots, pans and teapots were still piled high in a Blackpool scrap yard in the mid sixties . I used to see them from the top deck of the bus but was really looking at half a dozen mixed aircraft canopies !

I can confirm that some aluminium pots and pans were turned into Spitfires.

Mark

CGI/Overlaid B&W period film? No actually. what you saw was genuine film of a test drop of Upkeep at Reculver off the North Kent coast. You are just not used to seeing a Lancaster flown in such a way. The test was to see the bomb drop from an aircraft pulling up sharply. If I remember correctly the pilot is Les Munro. There are a group of officials standing in front. One of whom is waving his arms. This is none other than Barnes Wallis. This was part of a series of films found in the IWM archives around 1993. This explains the IWM credit at the end.
If you do not believe me then get hold of the video “Dambusters The True Story” by DD video. The video includes further test drops including a Lancaster damaged when hit by the water and a flypast by Gibson’s aircraft.

Most of the drive for scrap was a planned method of raising the morale on the home front so that people felt they were helping. The pots, pans and teapots were still piled high in a Blackpool scrap yard in the mid sixties . I used to see them from the top deck of the bus but was really looking at half a dozen mixed aircraft canopies !

[QUOTE=Pete Truman;1104002]

My mum telephoned me halfway through the programme to tell me that she was stunned to see all the metal railings still in place! She assured me that by 1943 most if not all would have been long gone and turned into aeroplanes or tanks by then! I suppose she would know, she was around then!

It was wrought iron railings and front step furniture (boot scrapers) that were chopped off and stored for future use. I remember walks across Gloucester in my childhood through the park with all the stumps sticking out of boundary walls.

I don’t think this iron was ever used as the effort in re-smelting the poor quality material wasn’t worth the fuel or time and there was no shortage of steel.

… and, evidently, the senior officer in the military overseeing the whole thing was a lowly Captain in the Navy!
Andy Saunders

Not only that a naval officer with a ‘tash. Gadzooks! Don’t these media types know yet that in the RN it is a full set or nowt!

Now WRT yon bouncing bomb -the type that broke up was it not spherical in shape the problems of manufacture of which led to the cylindrical form used in further tests and for real?

As others have remarked, frightful plot with much hammy acting Kitchen aside. That was a real ‘funny walk’ by that driver of his early on, John Clease would have been pleased.:D

Foyles War

Can anybody confirm that the Royal Navy Captain who appeared to be in charge of the mine project should either have been clean shaven or wearing a “full set”. Surely not just a thin mustache such as was shown.

The famous White Cliffs of Hastings

Not only that, but we now have chalk cliffs at Hastings,

Those chalk cliffs, and the scene where the two sentries found the girl on the beach looked suspiciously like they were shot at Cuckmere Haven, a scenic spot at the Western end of the Seven Sisters, between Seaford and Eastbourne, so not all that far from Hastings in real terms? But, being another Sussex resident, I too noticed how much Hastings has changed in the last sixty years – no wonder it’s looking a little past it’s best these days – after all, loss of a busy dockyard, and loss of those sparkling white cliffs must have been a real blow to the local economy 😉 .

I also wondered about all the iron railings about the place :diablo: , and about those steel traffic bollards which looked all too much like those used by local authorities today in an attempt to try to add an air of “period character” to their “traffic-free” zones:D .

Interesting to see so many fine details points about “Upkeep” creeping in (such as dropping speeds and altitudes, use of backspin etc), perhaps a vain attempt to try to add credibility for any “expert viewers” who might have been watching, yet all in vain when the cgi/overlaid period B&W film was so poorly executed.

I’m off to check my house insurance for coastal erosion clauses, as I reckon our house in Lewes will be gone in another fifty years or so, unless Mr Foyle can track down whomever “nicked” the white cliffs of Hastings and their dockyard….

Overall 4/10 – could do better….?

[QUOTE=Dam Buster;1103992]

My mum telephoned me halfway through the programme to tell me that she was stunned to see all the metal railings still in place! She assured me that by 1943 most if not all would have been long gone and turned into aeroplanes or tanks by then! I suppose she would know, she was around then!

Nice one, I noticed that as well, very nicely painted too.

Hmmm….Have not watched many of these ‘Foyl’es War’ thingy’s, but thought I would have a look given the slight sideways references to ‘Upkeep’ etc… Oh dear, I was quite taken aback. More wood in the acting than they ever originally used around the trial ‘Upkeeps’.:( I forced myself to watch it just in case something interesting turned up. They only thing that did was a nice glass of ‘Spitfire’ delivered by Mrs Dam Buster in an effort to keep me awake.:D

My mum telephoned me halfway through the programme to tell me that she was stunned to see all the metal railings still in place! She assured me that by 1943 most if not all would have been long gone and turned into aeroplanes or tanks by then! I suppose she would know, she was around then!

Ah well, I shall not be watching any more of Mr Foyle’s Wars! I shall get back to planning my visit to Germany in May, lost 2 hours planning time Sunday night……..
Regards to all,

Keith.

I couldn’t make my mind up whether they were building the “bomb” or the rotating gear that mounted and spun it, bearing in mind that they continually refered to it as “the machine”; the Navy would have had overall control because upkeep was a mine, and with regards to the whitecliffs and dockyard; Andy, have you never heard of coastal errosion? I think a “could do better” in red biro across the btm corner of the exercise book, (just above the pencil drawing of the Lanc).

Other than an occasional bit of gurning, I couldn’t detect any talent whatsoever in the performance of the lead actor, nor any of his colleagues.

Wooden acting, ludicrous plot, unconvincing “period feel”, it’s just another example of ITV’s inability to entertain its audience.

Now. don’t get me started on that other forum favourite, Dark Blue World…:eek: