Heads Up – "Red Tails" – Sunday 22/3/15

Luckily I have it on DVD.

I haven’t seen Always in ages. Need to watch it soon…!

They don’t seem to put it on very often, for whatever reason. One of the last films that the lovely
Audrey Hepburn appeared in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC79rQ7TMcU

Dan,

I have to admit, for ‘adults’ the movie is terrible, but as you have clearly pointed out it fits perfectly with the ‘junior’s section’ of the movie world. And if that gets the youngsters interested and continuing to unravel history for the future……perfect.

Chris

Dan,

Possibly the best post I’ve read in a long time and certainly the best the two images posted!

Yes, it’s not the best film ever (far far from it) but it has inspired Dans son and therefore must have inspired more kids. It is serving a purpose and more people will hear of the role of black airmen in ww2 through this film than any other way at the moment.

A great story.

I’m as picky as they come and I was all ready to rip into Red Tails. Then I realized what I was watching. It was John Wayne in “Flying Tigers”. It’s basically the same story. It was then I got it. It was for a kid to get the interest. I watched all those old black and white movies and never thought twice about how accurate it was. It fed my interest in WW2 aviation. It sent me to books where I actually learned things. But boy was it fun watching those gawd awful P40s shooting down model Japanese planes.

I have a little guy at home who is 6 now. He showed up kind of unexpectedly but he’s my son and I want to share my love of WW2 history with him. It was easier with my oldest son as my oldest was white. All the books I had were white pilots and it was easy. My little guy is black. He loves propellers. When Red Tails was finally available on TV we watched it and I had the remote handy to speed through it for the parts that were not ok for a little guy. I’d done the same thing with “Top Gun” for my oldest way back when. He loved “Top Gug” has he called it. Well my little guy loved those Mustangs in Red Tails and he loved the pilots. My son is also deaf and it was a fairly powerful moment when he pointed to one of the pilots on screen and signed that he and the pilot were ‘the same’.

This is who the movie was made for, not a bunch of old codgers with too much time on their hands to rivet count 🙂

I haven’t seen Always in ages. Need to watch it soon…!

That issue can be picked up here: http://www.cinefex.com/backissues/issue44.htm

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… and no doubt will go on saying it in these threads. The reality of CGI is ****** all to do with CGI. It’s how the directors and producers want to use it and how they direct the CGI artists. With model work and live action the camera is highly restricted with what’s possible. Which explains why you have entirely unnoticeable CGI and then very noticeable CGI. That’s certainly the case when considering big budget films like Red Tails.

Also, being someone who has done both model work and CG I can tell you that becoming skillful enough to work on high end CG is harder. Creating a realistic shot in CG is harder. The difference and reason why we choose CGI is often down to the limitations of practical work (usually scale is the issue) and the ability to iterate the work. Both of those factors often make it cheaper too.

I am curious which shots in Always were models.

I suppose the Invader flying through the flames, and blowing up , but what else ? Probably the InYvader dumping on the PBY.

Yes, those were two of the scenes.
Also all of the water bombing of the fires and indeed most of the actual flying shots, in fact the real aeroplanes are mainly only used for the groundbased set up shots with the actors and of course the opening shot of the movie where the Super Cat does a water pick-up on the lake. That scene was used for years by salesmen to demo home movie sound systems.

The models were built to one fifth scale resulting in the super Cat having a wingspan of 21 feet !

The water bombing scenes were filmed in old aircraft hangars and the models were “flown” on rigid rigs through a miniature landscape that had been set ablaze.

The effects work was done by ILM (Industrial Light & Magic) George Lucas’ effects facility so there is a link to Red Tails although by this time the effects industry had changed beyond all recognition in the intervening years.

As far as model work goes “Always” is really quite impressive and showcases traditional movie modelwork at it’s very best.

If you can find a copy, CINEFEX magazine number 44 has a very good and detailed article on the effects work for this film.

Good movies use effects to complement the story…

Going to replay the aerial scenes at half speed to see if that is more in keeping with my understanding about air-to-air combat….

Dagga dagga dagga……

I’ve seen video clips of some bloody realistic 1/4 Spitfires – they look much better than the majority of CGI stuff!

I am curious which shots in Always were models.

I suppose the Invader flying through the flames, and blowing up , but what else ? Probably the Invader dumping on the PBY.

Models per se are not necessarily verboten, and they have worked well in plenty of films such as Memphis Belle. I concede they were AWFUL in 633 Squadron, but that was half a century ago !

Models, and even ( intelligent ) CGI have their place in contemporary film making, as long as the trajectories which they follow are broadly within the limits of aerodynamics of the era in question, ie no Mustangs performing multiple rolls in a 10,000 feet vertical climb 🙂

Between BoB and Red Tails there were two excellent ‘flying’ movies that come to mind ; Always and Air America.

Both used real aircraft and not CGI.

Looking back it appears to be a golden age that has now gone forever.

Moggy

Always was made in 1989 and Air America 1990, CGI technology was very much in it’s infancy and only came to prominence in 1991 with Terminator 2 and was only succesful in that film due to it’s huge budget and the directors desire to push the technology to it’s limits.
A romantic drama remake (Always) and Action comedy (Air America) could only dream of T2’s budget.

I don’t know about Air America, but a big portion of the flying scenes in Always were actually achieved with large scale flying models rather than the real thing because of both budget and the ability of the director to obtain the shots he required more easily without having to worry about serviceability or weather restrictions.

do you recall those buffoons that threatened to have Mel Smith arrested, for smoking a cigar, while portraying Churchill?

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Nice one Moggy!

That’s odd, my screenplay is almost finished. Here’s a snippet:

The scene is a typical British pub some way back from the southern coast. Through the fug of tobacco smoke a few figures can be nearly seen.

Handsome man in Commando uniform: Bonsoir Madame Innkeeper. May I ‘ave a pint of your finest English ale s’il vous plait?

Publican: Why certainly Sir. Where did you get that wound on your hand? Been taking part in the invasion?

HMICU: Bien sur. I ‘ave just returned from Normandie.

Publican: And how was it?

HMCIU: It would ‘ave been easier if the Americans ‘ad pulled zer weight. I saw not one, the whole three months I was there.

Just then a detachment of Home Guard walk in and are overheard.

Home Guard Corporal: Here Al, you started shaving yet?

Al: No Corp.

Pete: Me neither

Dave: Nor me.

Corporal: Oh bother! I was hoping to blag a razor blade off someone.

The entire detachment shrugs or shake their heads.

Al: Any luck with that Land Girl you took into the woods last week Dave?

Dave: No usual story, saving herself for marriage like all the rest of them.

Then a young boy with a brown luggage label rushes in.

Boy: I say bar person, might it be possible to have a bag of pork scratching for my landlady if you would be so kind. She’s had an awfully hard day at the bullet factory and has just come home and redecorated the parlour whilst composing a stirring patriotic song on her jolly old ukulele for George Formby’s next film?

Publican: Certainly Tarquin, that will be tuppence.

Boy: Thank you bar-person.

The publican turns to the Commando again.

Publican: Did you happen to meet any of those awful Germans over there lad?

HMICU: Ah, mais oui. I certainly did. We took a lot of them prisoner. They are a strange lot, mostly writing romantic poetry and crying when they find some poor stray poodle that has been wounded by shell fragments. They spend a lot of time at the local synagogue in Caen helping to repair the damages, or tending the vegetable garden at the camp to supply the local orphanages even though they are starving themselves.

Suddenly there is a hubbub and a man in a siren-suit walks in.

Publican: Gosh! You are him aren’t you?

Churchill: (In Derek Guyler accent) Well, yuss

Publican: I have one cigar left from when that Fieseler Fi 103 revenge weapon and precursor of the cruise missile hit the pub last week, will you do me the honour of accepting it as a token of my esteem?

Churchill: Well no. I have given up, the tar content isn’t good for your lungs you know?

Moggy

I am writing a screen play to address the issues that bug me about most WW2 movies, even ones I enjoy.

* Some of the more obscure units are fascinating, ie French Commandos in Normandy. Gurkha, Sikhs, Chindits. We are all sick of this idea that only Americans took part. and they were all white, clean and blue eyed!

* Germans had feelings too, albeit not always nice ones!

*Women did a lot more in WW2 than cry on railway stations and have their arses pinched by airmen

* Not all evacuees were slum kids with mockney accents. My uncle is a middle class schoolmasters son from rural Suffolk.

* WLA did a lot more than just have sex with men against trees.

* More than half of the home guard were actually young boys waiting for call up

* Not every Brit said “cor blimey guvnor” or “oh gosh”

* Churchill is one of the most fascinating men of all time, love him or hate him. Yet in every portrayal he makes one speech and puffs on a cigar. He was more than just a fat man in a homburg!

* Last but not least STORY! The veterans stories are astounding. I have spent most of my life listening to them, yet most stories are purely good versus evil. My script will incorporate humour, sadness, loss, despair, wit and genuine laugh out loud moments.

Yes – all fair points which only go to emphasise just how subjective the judgment of good or bad “art” is.