Here We Go

Balliol … dummy up as JU-87 … there is someth[ing] there, more than a Proctor?

I agree … I’d never seen one before this thread and was thinking exactly the same thing. It’s that HUGE chin radiator plus the glasshouse. Put some spats on the u/c and what have you got? At least as good a pretence as 108s whizzing about pretending to be 109s.

Couple of pics of actual aircraft in use ! It’s nice to be old (sometimes).
Keith.

Bit late, but I have VHF radio unit here with serial WG225 penciled on the back.

Balliol T2 built Sep ’53, scrapped St.Athan Jan 1961. Only 7 years of use. What a waste.

Nice aircraft all-in-all.

However, the RAF did have at least two on charge at RAF St Athan in 1958/’59/’60 when I was there as a Boy Entrant. One was used as air experience aircraft for the boy trainees and both were employed as taxying/marshalling instructional airframes – driven, mostly, by a mad Polish Master pilot who did exactly what was signalled to him to the consternation of most of us young lads.

Doesn’t help any I guess but it sort of popped into my mind when I was reading the tread. :rolleyes:

😉

Maybe it didn’t help any but still of interest, thank you.

Balliol seats.

The three seat requirement for the Balliol was dropped at an early stage and the space behind the front seats became an equipment bay on most,if not all
production aircraft.Nice to see interest in the Balliol,it impressed me when I was at an impressionable age!

t had saw limited RAF service, starting in 1950 it joined 7 FTS, CFS and was phased out with them during 1956. A handfull joined 288 sqn in June ’53 and remained with them until Sept 1957, they were used for target towing work. Considering 196 were built it was a very short service time, but jets had well and truely taken over by 1956.

Nice aircraft all-in-all.

However, the RAF did have at least two on charge at RAF St Athan in 1958/’59/’60 when I was there as a Boy Entrant. One was used as air experience aircraft for the boy trainees and both were employed as taxying/marshalling instructional airframes – driven, mostly, by a mad Polish Master pilot who did exactly what was signalled to him to the consternation of most of us young lads.

Doesn’t help any I guess but it sort of popped into my mind when I was reading the tread. :rolleyes:

😉

Ah the dear old Balliol, it’s surprising that a nice looking merlin powered side by side trainer didn’t have any post service success (such as say the Provost). Just look under the scrapheap thread to see how most ended up.
Built to requirement T.7/45, it started as the Balliol Mk.1 powered by the Bristol Mercury, first flying 7 May ’47, and was intended to enter service powered by the A.S. Mamba.
People forget that when the Mamba version first flew 17 may 1948, it became the worlds first single turbo-prop aircraft to fly
Meanwhile a new spec, T.14/47 had been drawn up for a piston powered trainer. A Merlin version was fielded, first flying 10 July 1948.
Its rival for service use was the Avro Athena and this shared the same three powerplant options, it was unsuccessful.
Not sure why the Mamba T.1 didn’t work out (possibly RAF indecission) but the low powered Merlin 35 (1,245 hp max speed 250 knots) powered Balliol T.2 went into RAF service.
It had saw limited RAF service, starting in 1950 it joined 7 FTS, CFS and was phased out with them during 1956. A handfull joined 288 sqn in June ’53 and remained with them until Sept 1957, they were used for target towing work. Considering 196 were built it was a very short service time, but jets had well and truely taken over by 1956.
Royal Ceylon Airforce operated at least seven.
FAA received 30 Sea Balliols, though they had folding wings and arrestor hook I’m not sure if they ever operated from carriers, they were around for longer than the Balliol.
Some aircraft must of had very low hours when they left RAF service, thats why I’m surprised that these three seat aircraft never found personal use as private hacks etc, just one made it, G-ANSF.

Thanks very much for that. I knew their service life was short but didn’t know it was that short., also wasn’t aware they were three seaters. Its competitor, the Athena, was also a nice looking machine. That the Balliol had such a short service life is understandable given the fact that jets were the thing to have by the time it entered service.

Pic of one from Cosford and Boulton and Paul for you

Many thanks, I did overlook her when I visited Cosford.

Thanks for that JDK, my other ‘putor won’t open links. looked at in now though, some amazing work going on there, especially with the Overstrand, something that is really missing from any collection.

They don’t make ’em like they used to.

Photo from the Paddy Heffernan collection in the RAAF Museum Archives.

Balliol question

I appreciate the BP Balliol was probably a little racy for the civil market when they came out of service, but is there some reason why so few survive?

Were they too costly to run using the merlin?

Were airframe hours all used up quickly?

Were production numbers low in the first place? – 196 in total – how does this compare with the piston provost for example?

It is the only merlin engined “single” I can think of having side by side seating, and it is a fine looking machine.

Permission to talk through my hat anybody?

Just a (daft?) comment – wonder if they looked at any of the Balliol survivors to dummy up as JU-87’s for the Battle Of Britain – Ok, wing shape is not there but to my half closed eyes there is somethere there, more than a Proctor?

I’ll get my coat……

Thanks for that JDK, my other ‘putor won’t open links. looked at in now though, some amazing work going on there, especially with the Overstrand, something that is really missing from any collection.

Pete, the BP 111 delta research aircraft still exists, that really should be at Cosford IMO. Also I thought major parts of an Overstrand (or Sidestrand, one with turret) survived and are encompassed in a static recreation of the type.

See the link in my post 10 for a listing of all BPA aircraft and associated aircraft, by my friend and sometime forum contributor, Mark Ansell. 😉

a few more shots from Boulton Paul for you

Pete, the BP 111 delta research aircraft still exists, that really should be at Cosford IMO. Also I thought major parts of an Overstrand (or Sidestrand, one with turret) survived and are encompassed in a static recreation of the type. I guess their greatest legacy is turrets.

Mike, I went to Cosford today and saw the Sea Balliol, I can’t see how you missed it! It’s in the RAF Museum and on display in the prototype and research jets hangar. I mean. thats exactly where you would expect to find a piston engined Fleet Air Arm training aircraft!:rolleyes:

It begs the question, why don’t RAFM Cosford and FAAM Yeovilton get their heads together so that the Sea Balliol goes to Yeovilton, and their Supermarine 517 swept wing research jet goes to Cosford?

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/markansell/bpa/preserved/preserved.html

Thank you very much, very comprehensive, I’m just about to specify some Jenweld windows, I’d love to put put that on the list, but it wouldn’t be appreciated unfortunately.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/markansell/bpa/preserved/preserved.html

Excuse my ignorance, but is the photograph labelled Boulton and Paul of ‘149’ then.
Where is this being restored and what will be it’s status when finished, a static presumably, but where is it planned to display it, there seems to be a lot more of the airframe than I expected.
I always used to specify their windows till they were taken over by Jeldwen, I know that the aircraft division was removed from the company at Norwich pre-war, but I always used to think of Defiants and smile when writing out specifications, well, spec writing is so boring, how many recipients of these interminable lists knew of the relationship of the company with such ‘infamous’ ? aircraft, I used to mention it at site meetings and get raised eyebrows.
Apart from the complete Defiant at Hendon, the Balliols at Cosford and wherever, 2 Balliol cockpit sections and the remains of a Defiant recovered from the Peak District, thats the sum total of survivors of the company is it, though lets not forget the various gun turrets about, it would be interesting to know how many of their products survive intact, must be lots of windows about though.

former NEAM balliol cockpit section is now at millom. very ‘frilly’ condition….

Ah the dear old Balliol, it’s surprising that a nice looking merlin powered side by side trainer didn’t have any post service success (such as say the Provost). Just look under the scrapheap thread to see how most ended up.
Built to requirement T.7/45, it started as the Balliol Mk.1 powered by the Bristol Mercury, first flying 7 May ’47, and was intended to enter service powered by the A.S. Mamba.
People forget that when the Mamba version first flew 17 may 1948, it became the worlds first single turbo-prop aircraft to fly
Meanwhile a new spec, T.14/47 had been drawn up for a piston powered trainer. A Merlin version was fielded, first flying 10 July 1948.
Its rival for service use was the Avro Athena and this shared the same three powerplant options, it was unsuccessful.
Not sure why the Mamba T.1 didn’t work out (possibly RAF indecission) but the low powered Merlin 35 (1,245 hp max speed 250 knots) powered Balliol T.2 went into RAF service.
It had saw limited RAF service, starting in 1950 it joined 7 FTS, CFS and was phased out with them during 1956. A handfull joined 288 sqn in June ’53 and remained with them until Sept 1957, they were used for target towing work. Considering 196 were built it was a very short service time, but jets had well and truely taken over by 1956.
Royal Ceylon Airforce operated at least seven.
FAA received 30 Sea Balliols, though they had folding wings and arrestor hook I’m not sure if they ever operated from carriers, they were around for longer than the Balliol.
Some aircraft must of had very low hours when they left RAF service, thats why I’m surprised that these three seat aircraft never found personal use as private hacks etc, just one made it, G-ANSF.