Historic aircraft engines salvage

RE: Historic aircraft engines salvage

Hi Moggy thanks for that.

as you said some one might part with some cash for it.

I wont part with any cash unless I need too as all cash is needed to restore not to aquire.Besides if I buy one that will take away half the fun and sense of acheivement.

regards Merlin

RE: Historic aircraft engines salvage

OK,

I know the original post said you didn’t want to part with money.

But somebody might.

This from the PFA small ads:

“Unsupercharged Rolls Royce Merlin (Meteor 4B) rebuilt but coolant leak. Complete, accessories, manuals, £1,500. Tel: 01252 376226.”

Moggy

RE: Historic aircraft engines salvage

Went out but failed to find the crash site. Got you E-Mail and have replied.
Keithmac.

RE: Historic aircraft engines salvage

Hi Keith

Safe to say you have a Whitley fan here! 19 OTU operated the earlier Whitley’s with Tiger radials and many Whitleys came to grief around Kinloss and the surrounds – I for one would be VERY interested in hearing about what you manage to turn up.

Did you manage to get out there this weekend?

Cheers

Elliott

RE: Historic aircraft engines salvage

Hi Merlin,

You’ll be pleased to hear I’ve just eaten a large slice of humble pie. Your first post didn’t really make me think that you were serious about the project, but I’m happy to stand corrected. No offence meant with my response.

Good luck with trying to track down engines from scrap sites. Even if you don’t locate any complete units, there may well be some ancilliary bits lurking out there. I’m currently working on some cowl gill rings which were dug up at an old yard, some of them are pretty good, so there may still be some usable bits out there waiting to be found…

Steve

RE: Historic aircraft engines salvage

Hi Steve and Keith.

Steve I hear what you are saying about ethics etc.

But I am sorry to dissappoint you but you are preaching to the preacher. I am very familiar to the laws regarding crashed aircraft.

I have been on digs (and I must stress licensed ones) and have found a handful of components and not much else but I know there are still some usable engines out there. I am not only talking crashed aircrat but scrapped a/c as well or maybe a local scrap yard has some. Also when engines were scrapped the aircraft was pushed over two trenches with the outer wings removed and then a still saw taken to the engine mounts where upon the engines dropped to the trench. Does anyone know where these trenches are.(mostly found on airfields). All sorts of places have engines so not just crashes am I after.

Secondly Ethics.

I am fully aware that on crash sites we can and do find human remains on site. The correct procedure for this type of dig is to cease activity at the dig the very moment the remains are found and contact the local police. Normally this will result in no more licenses being issued for this site.Also inform the issuing office of the finds.

I have had experiance of finding remains and think that our situation was a strange case. Upon finding the remains we stopped the dig and informed the police. But although the crash report said body recovered intact we now know that there was no way possible that the body was recovered because of the explosion.The RAF records were WRONG.There will be no more digs on that site and a memorial is to be placed on site. I myself can sleep soundly at night .When we take on the task of aviation archaeology we accept the risks involved like finding human remains and explosives.It comes with the job. A friend of mine who has done far more digs than me said you have about a 75% chance of findings remains everytime you dig as the RAF records for the time are pretty vauge.

I do not however enjoy finding bits of bodies but in order to establish what really happened to the aircraft and crew we need to dig these sites. Its not just to get the parts but to understand what happened.

To get a good idea of what a good site dig / report is check out this site I found. This guy seems to have done everything right and has made a good understanding in his report of what happened.

www.neeacr.fsnet.co.uk

and click on the visit crashes and the 1958-59 link and then hunter

Hi Keith

I will mail you about the engines. We have talked before about such things. I would really like to build a spares list so people could contact me for thier engine requirements for spares. Not for money but possibly barter as I know that you cant sell aircraft parts on for money if you have lifted them from a crash site. Also I would like to attempt a little restoration project myself having seen a crash site merlin brought back to life at East Fortune.

regards Merlin

RE: Historic aircraft engines salvage

Hi Merlin,
I’ve recently been told that there’s a pair of radials lying in the Culbin Forest about 6 or 7 miles short of the Kinloss threshold. Reputidly from a Beaufighter. However as my informant produced a rocker arm and exhaust valve from one of them, it was’nt a Beaufighter! It’s more likely to be a Whitley, but my scanning of the records of Kinloss Whitley losses shows no Whitley in that exact location. I’m off to have a look over the weekend, but just to try and identify the wreck. Any of you Whitley fans know any more?
KeithMac.

RE: Historic aircraft engines salvage

Merlin, after reading through my posting I just thought I’d better qualify the Alligator remark; I mean that wrestling alligators is probably more leisurely than dragging engines off mountains. Certainly don’t want you thinking I’d tie anyone’s arms behind their back and drop ’em in amongst big nasty things with sharp teeth. I’ve got a “nice guy” reputation to keep up… 😉

RE: Historic aircraft engines salvage

First of all Merlin, I think I’m right in saying that all salvage operations undertaken on crashed ex-military aircraft in the UK – regardless of their original nationality – MUST be authorised by the MoD. That’s a legal requirement.

Secondly, you’ve then got the ethical question. Did someone die in that aeroplane? This opens a whole can of worms, involving designated war graves, relatives wishes, and whether or not you’d be able to sleep at night.

Thirdly, when an aeroplane goes in, it’s usually a fast and extremely vicious impact. Most of the aeroplane will be smashed to pieces and largely unrecognisable. Because of it’s mass, the engine (or engines, if it was a twin or larger) will still survive to an extent, but they’ll be an absolute mess – shattered, split, corroded, and that’s just the outsides. When an aircraft impacts, the engine is usually slowed fom high speed to a dead stop in a fraction of a second. This action alone will destroy the thing from the inside; pistons, con rods, cams, the lot. The chances of findin anything evn remotely usable are slimmer than an anorexic stick insect.

Finally, most of the surviving crash sites are on high ground, where their very remoteness and inaccesibility make recovery of even small parts a hazardous undertaking.

I understand that you may think I’m trying to put you off. Well you’re right, but it’s not through any hidden agenda. I just don’t think, from reading your original posting, that it’s really been thought through. I’d be delighted if you could prove me wrong. About a year ago, I went off in search of the remains of a Beaufighter which went in many years ago, killing both on board. I didn’t find it, and perhaps with hindsight I’m glad I didn’t (see point #2 above). But I have seen the ground, and recovering anything larger than a bolt would be a logistical nightmare. I’ve seen functional Bristol Hercules engines up close. They weigh roughly a ton and a half.

In short, if you’re thinking of recovering crashed aero engines off high ground, forget it and take up something a bit more leisurely instead. How’s wrestling alligators with both hands tied behind your back sound? 🙂