Historic Aviation Material Standards

BS could be Bristol Standard or similar, it’s not something I’ve come across as I only worked in commercial metals, not aerospace – old or otherwise – but I’m pretty certain that B.S. xxxx will be British Standard.

dh, BS, in the context given, is not British Standard. I know in the same way that Jesus knew the brand of the nails that pinned him to the cross…It would be good to locate a Bristol Standard folder, which would provide dimensions, material specs (probably BACA! Be good to find a BACA folder!). Surely this was not all thrown out….

Thanks for the answers.
It’s Bristol aircraft…
So it might be Bristol Standard too…
Does that help to get me closer to the answer?
Should I try to contact BSI?
Thanks a lot.

BS or B.S. is British Standard, administered by the British Standards Institution.
Well it was – they appear to call themselves BSI Group now.

Thanks AA. T-T, not off topic nor a silly question. The silly parts are the number of proprietary classification systems for the same material or object. In other words each manufacturer (or service arm in the case of the USA) would come up with their own naming system. I am not familiar with BS ( except in Australian vernacular) but I presume it may be Bristol Standard. What aircraft is it? DeHavilland has DHS (DH Standard) and Hawker has A Std parts as an example of a proprietory naming system for the kinds of standard lego that may have featured across their designs. This mania for coming up with your own naming system extends to materials , eg CA Standards for Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation, PW Standards for Pratt & Whitney, Rolls Royce material standards and BACA material Standards for Bristol. The BACA material for the 1960’s T188 supersonic jet is the same stuff as a 1935 Cheetah exhaust manifold and this is the same as a weatherstrip on the jumbo that takes you on a holiday today, but you will never know by reference to any of the literature. It doesn’t help practical restoration progress or safety. So for a dumb system, asking dumb questions is the right thing to do.

You are doing some great job there, obviously! :applause:

May I have an uneducated question?
I hope it’s not too off-topic (if yes, tell me so, please, then ignore it).

When I read in an original 1939 British technical drawing things like this:

Ferrule
BS 2063-3

Stiffener
Make from B.S. 2123 or alternatively B.S. 2098

Rivets 1/8″ DIA FLAT HD B.S. 2147-16,

where/how can I find more info on these things?
Like dimensions and so on…
I guess BS (or B.S.) goes for British Standard…

Is it something you are discussing here?

Thanks for any kind of help.
Regards.

Top effort P&P! 🙂

Thanks ex Brat and Beermat – there are some pressings that can only be obtained with more ductile 2014, so stoop they must, or be perplexed with wrinkles and shrinkers…

NB – If the old Standard pages are cached on your computer, you may have to refresh to see the new Standards.
Standards recently located but not organized or digitized include AGS in the 200-600 series, interwar US Army Air Corps – these will not appear till end 2018, if there is enough stamina…

Vickers Aviation

The Vickers Aviation Products catalogue from 1929 captures much of the detail and features of British aircraft from the interwar and early WW2 period : Vickers Potts Oil Coolers, two way and three way valves, flying wires, fasteners, oleo -pneumatic struts…if only they could be purchased today!

Rolls Royce and Hiduminium materials

Hiduminium (‘High Duty Aluminium’ by High Duty Alloys Ltd) materials form an intrinsic part of the Rolls Royce (and other) engine manufacturing stories. Ultimately High Duty Alloys was incorporated into the Rolls Royce group of companies and are often identified by the RR prefix. Most cast components of the Merlin engine were made from RR50. Understanding these materials and how they allowed more horsepower to be obtained for less weight are a big part of the 20th century British engine story.

Japanese WW2 Materials

A remarkable analysis by Australia’s Department of Aircraft Production (DAP) in 1946 engaged translators in transcribing wartime Japanese Material standards and these were then compared and matched with wartime British and US standards. This document provides the most detailed forensic engineering analysis of Japanese wartime aircraft structures, with further BIOS reports dealing with Japanese engines. These BIOS reports are quite complimentary of the workmanship and materials in Japanese radial engines. Today, these structures are a ‘lost world’ in engineering terms and it is very difficult to penetrate into Japanese literature to find answers, particularly because the written Japanese of the time varied from region to region. To me, it is amazing to accept the idea that a Japanese person might not have been able to read some information written in another region in 1945. A fluent Japanese speaker of today must grapple with archaic regional dialects and a historic, obscure, technical language. I have tried to have Japanese technical data plates translated today by university level speakers and it is hard, slow work to translate terms such as ‘hydraulic reservoir’. Finally there is enough information here to provide a comprehensive English language guide to the identification and substitution of wartime Japanese materials.

This engineering information was purposefully destroyed in postwar Japan as the fascist war machine was de-fanged. Even today, the restoration of wartime Japanese aircraft in modern Japan generates mixed emotions. I acknowledge these feelings but also think that without the physical evidence of the Pacific War, in the form of restored Japanese wartime aircraft, this part of history will be harder to tell and re-tell to a younger generation.

British Standards

A fine vein of inetrwar and WW2 era British Standards emerged from the Kerle collection, formerly used by the RAAF. In particular A Standards dealing with fasteners, B Standards dealing with Brass, D & F Standards dealing with Doping and Fabric, K Standards dealing with Cast Iron, early L Standards for Aluminium, early S and T Standards for steels and tubes, SP Standards for fork joints, tie rods and rivets, V Standards for plywoods, W standards for control wires and X Standards for paints. An additional page deals with Cancellations and Substitutions of British Standards through various eras, providing a roadmap for the evolution of British materials.

The definitive guide is taking shape.. thank you very much indeed Ed.

I am particularly interested in visible shape changes bought about by using 2024 where 2014 was originally specified for a design. Or did you mean the non-UK manufacturer would stoop to 2014 where necessary?

DTD Standards

Over 750 DTD Standards are now available, including wartime originals, as well as an Index that can assist in identifying which DTD Standards eventually became British Standards. A common inquiry is DTD390, Alclad, which most 1936-1945 British structures were made of. Unfortunately an original DTD390 standard has yet to be located, but by reference to to the documents in the Substitution Page, a link to US 24ST, or today’s 2024, may be obtained. A researcher must be careful to understand the difference between Alclad 2024 and 2014, a lower strength, far more ductile material, in following this journey.

Often the difference between 2024 and 2014 was a further run through a mill, to work harden 2014 into 2024. As mill time was valuable during the war, the preference, in British design thought, may have been to use a 2014 grade, rather than the more expensive (in time and money) 2024. This becomes relevant today when some British structures require bending into forms that only the more ductile 2014 can achieve, where the less ductile 2024 may buckle or resist a satisfactory result.

Wartime Alclad in the UK was often 2014, while wartime Alclad in the US was often 2024. In 1940, one country was in a desperate struggle for survival while another country had more time and space to allow double conversion into 2024 and indulge a ‘do it right first time’ design and build philosophy. Many US structures were designed from the outset as 2024 structures while many British structures were designed from the outset as 2014 structures. In Australia, much 2024 Alclad came from the US, and was applied to 2014 UK designs such as the Beaufort and Beaufighter. US and UK sheetmetal gauges were also different. How US materials were adapted to British designs depended on the geometry of the structure. Some 2014 shapes could not be obtained in ‘stiffer’ 2024. Some 2014 thicknesses could be reduced by the use of ‘stronger’ 2024.

We do live in a US material world today. US materials are often more available and at a lower cost, which is a great thing. It is unremarkable that a historic British, German or Japanese structure may be made from US materials with different mechanical characteristics and different gauges, in comparison to the original. By understanding the non US original, a more informed basis can be made on the safe selection of modern US materials.

Australian Emergency Standards

Australian Emergency Standards were issued by the Standards Association of Australia and are often verbatim reprints of wartime British and DTD Standards, so a good cross reference for aircraft of the WW2 period. Included within this body of work is the fascinating development of native Australian timbers as substitutes for unobtainable European or North American timbers. The tourist of today visiting the stunning Daintree Rainforest National Park, near the Great Barrier Reef, will not realize that the area was first reserved by the government as a source of wartime aircraft timbers !

Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation

The complete CAC Materials Standards catalogue has now been digitised, over 400 Standards that relate to aircraft and engines of British, French, Italian and American design. On the website only a part of these is displayed as the mind numbing task of formatting individual files to be downloadable has exceeded the budget of patience available in 2017. If you are after a copy of a particular file, use the Contact button to get in touch.

The entire collection of CAC aircraft and engine drawings, exceeding 650,000 negatives, is in the process of being digitised at ANAN Moorabbin Air Museum. It is envisaged that this process will take 5 years, but at the end of the process individual drawings for every nut and bolt of engines from the RR Merlin to 1960’s jets will be digitized, and airframes from the North American derived Wirraway to Mustang to Sabre will be available.

As a side project, based on the original drawings of the CA-15 ‘Kangaroo’ within the Archive, an accurate cockpit is being constructed for display in 2018.

https://www.facebook.com/CA15Kangaroo/

AGS

Over 500 AGS standards from the 1930’s – 60’s are available. An AGS standard may consist of a number of pages, with updates to a particular page being indicated by a revision number, eg AGS 673-3 (Revision 3). In general, I have placed a number of versions of the same AGS in sequential order, by date, incorporating a number of revisions, while the file can only be practically identified by one revision. In this case I have labelled the file with the latest revision number. By reference to the revision number, the AGS appropriate to the era of interest will become apparent.

Some documents are provided that translate AGS to later equivalent or substitute AS or British Standards.

Many AGS for 1920’s -30’s aircraft relate to bolts, screws and rivets which are re-mustered under later British Standards.

Just in time for Christmas, another 1,990 historical material standards are now available at www.silverbiplanes.com
In total, nearly 3,000 historical material standards have now been digitised and are available for free download, for the purpose of enabling the safe restoration of historic aircraft.

Forum members have been generous in digging out and sharing fantastic material : Cold Kiwi, Aircraft Clocks and Graham A, thank you ! If I have neglected to mention your contribution publicly, and a document of yours appears in the lists (RR Materials), it is either because my brain has boiled or because you are too valuable and special to be hung out like laundry on the forum. In all cases, thank you for your generosity !

As curator of the ANAM Moorabbin Museum Archives I was privileged in 2017 to receive an extraordinary donation from the family of the late Flt Lt Kevin Kerle (1942-2004), who spent 28 years in the RAAF. Amongst his roles was the co-ordination of technical manuals for the Air Force, which included disposals of obsolete material clogging bases and stores. Kevin was an historian and contributor to many well researched articles and publications on aviation history. One of his extraordinary contributions was to fulfill the directives of higher command to dispose off unwanted publications in large waste skips, and tick the appropriate paperwork to confirm that this was officially done. On the way home he would then back his car up to the waste skip and legally fill the boot with this material, which in the end became nearly 20 metric tonnes donated to the ANAM Moorabbin Archives ! From this extraordinary collection have come British Standards from the 1920’s to 60’s, rare English language analyses of wartime Japanese aircraft materials and structures and other gems which the hard working volunteers of the archives have sorted and continue to catalog. Flt Lt Kerle, I tip my hat, Sir.

Additional material has been sourced from the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation collection within ANAM Moorabbin Museum Archives, including an extraordinary body of historical AGS from the CAC Lidcombe engine manufacturing plant Inspection department.

Finding, sorting, scanning, file naming and configuring documents to be downloadable files on desktop and tablet computers takes many, many hundreds of hours. It is not possible to provide all the material found on the website. If you are searching for a particular material standard that does not appear in the current lists it may be in the pile waiting for scanning in 2018. If you do have any old material standards looking for a good home, they would always be gratefully received if you make use of the Contact button on the website.

Brief summaries of newly available material are given below.

ColdKiwi, AN 01-1A-9 is ” United States and British Commonwealth of Nations Aircraft Materials” which I am digitizing at the moment, but if you have an e-copy already, will you share? I am doing 1946 now. If you don’t have an e-copy, can you digitize 1944 only, and share?
This is a stunning document, very detailed and helpful.

Unfortunately I only have hard copies of both documents, but I would be quite happy to share a copy of the 1944 version when I get it scanned. I just need to arrange that somehow. If you PM with your EMail we can work out the details.

Under the terms of the Anzac Treaty…

Much of this problem was addressed by the monumental work ” United States and British Commonwealth of Nations Aircraft Materials” published by the US AAF, published in 1944 and revised in 1946.

ColdKiwi, AN 01-1A-9 is ” United States and British Commonwealth of Nations Aircraft Materials” which I am digitizing at the moment, but if you have an e-copy already, will you share? I am doing 1946 now. If you don’t have an e-copy, can you digitize 1944 only, and share?
This is a stunning document, very detailed and helpful.