In the Posting, “Words fail me” mention was made, that barbaric though it may seem criminals are sometimes stoned to death for the crime they committed.
So, I ask this que
estion. Crime rates are up, in nearly all areas of crime, so the question I pose is this. Do you think that it would make any difference to the crime rate if hanging was brought back, along with, and many of us have had it, a good caning at school, or what deterrent do you think would bring the crime rate down?.
Lincoln .7
By: Lincoln 7 - 6th February 2011 at 23:30
So, how many innocent lives would you be willing to sacrifice to satisfy your desire for the death penalty?
10 a year? 5 a year? 1?
What if you were that one? Would your own life be a price worth paying?
What a disgusting way to describe another human being. You should read the link in Mr Creosote’s posting, and then feel ashamed of yourself.
An innocent person shouldn’t be found guilty in the first place.
I’m out of this thread now, as I have a feeling that moderator action will be needed sooner rather than later.
I know what you mean GA, thats why I tagged this post..HOT TOPIC 😉
as I thought it would draw a lot of interest. however, it’s nice to get a cross section of views
Lincoln .7
Lincoln .7
By: PeeDee - 6th February 2011 at 23:30
For those offended by simpleton, apologies.
I could not remember his name, but I could remember he was Polish and was Educationally challenged……..for whatever reason.
Simpleton was a polite way of describing him. If simpleton is now on the list of banned unPC words, I am unaware of it.
As for the “Turn the tables on the poster” routine. I still maintain that an innocent person would not get killed. USA has not killed an innocent in 30 or more years, for the reasons explained. So if it was me facing the chair, then I would be guilty.
Of course the innocent shouldn’t end up in Jail, that’s a result of a crap system. The system would probably improve if the Death P was the ultimate penalty. Not because the “System” wants to change…they’ll just turn up 9-5 forever, but the appeal Lawyers would force it to change, force it get everything right.
The alternative is to carry on. And it isn’t working.
And it will only get worse because nobody really gives a sh!t, as I said, everybody just wants 9-5 with as little hassle as possible and as much money as possible.
By: Lincoln 7 - 6th February 2011 at 23:22
As others have pointed out, the very fact that the US continues to execute people suggests it is failing as a deterrent. As for the argument that wrongful convictions are unlikely now, I’m sure they made pretty much the same arguments back in 1975, when this poor devil was convicted of one of the most heinous crimes imaginable. If we’d had the death penalty here, he wouldn’t even have had those few brief months of life after his ultimate acquittal-
Yes, but PLEASE bear in mind Forensics have come a very long way since then, and I want members views for TODAY’S Societies opinions not yesteryears.
Lincoln ,7
By: Lincoln 7 - 6th February 2011 at 23:16
Sorry Sky, the chances of an innocent being put to death in this day and age are probably nil. The yanks haven’t made such a mistake since the early 70’s if I recall. Death row is a 5 stretch!
By the time the guilty are given the last breakfast, there will have been several appeals. The evidence is looked at dozens of times, by different Officers. An innocent would not hang or get pilled. They may get jailed, but they would not get hung.Unless of course it Saddo Huss, in which case they strung him up as fast as possible, because it was FUN.
You have stated just what I did, and beleive what I beleive, it’s virtually impossible to make a DNA, and I repeat D>N>A> mistake these days,, human mistake yes, mother nature….hardly.
Lincoln .7
By: Mr Creosote - 6th February 2011 at 22:36
It amazes me how blithely some people talk about Human taking life, whether legally (ie state executions) or illegally. The “Polish Simpleton” as someone here described him, had a dignity I would have been proud of; when interviewed on TV soon after his release, he refused to be bitter or resentful about his conviction or blame those who did it to him; when you think what he must have gone through in Jail, I think that’s quite something.
By: Grey Area - 6th February 2011 at 21:42
I wouldn’t have a concern about that old chestnut.
So, how many innocent lives would you be willing to sacrifice to satisfy your desire for the death penalty?
10 a year? 5 a year? 1?
What if you were that one? Would your own life be a price worth paying?
And the miscarriages of justice you may be referring to? The Polish simpleton? His case would not have resulted in a Death penalty, lawyers and red tape would have stopped that.
What a disgusting way to describe another human being. You should read the link in Mr Creosote’s posting, and then feel ashamed of yourself.
An innocent would not hang or get pilled. They may get jailed, but they would not get hung
An innocent person shouldn’t be found guilty in the first place.
I’m out of this thread now, as I have a feeling that moderator action will be needed sooner rather than later.
By: tornado64 - 6th February 2011 at 21:40
the death penalty doesn’t realy work as mentioned murders are still commited in countries that have it !!
not to mention that it is nowadays more expensive than a life ( meaning life )sentence as there is the added costs of appeals , reviews etc etc
caning isn’t the answer either it didn’t worry me a jot at school in fact if anything you compared teachers techniques
ironicaly the most fearsome at our school was a female english teacher
if you got caned by her and didn’t yelp you were tough ( i drew blood from my tongue , but yelp i didn’t ) although with hindsight two injuries wasn’t the best plan of action
the real trouble we face is no one is accountable for actions anymore
parents don’t follow up letters from school as thier little johnny is perfect so the school can ******* off !!
we have crimminals in local and national government that no matter how you dress it up were thieving from tax payers
these people are in charge so have to be whiter than white
hazel blears ( m.p. for salford ) was blatantly laughing about it and people were stupid enough to vote the thieving scumbag in again
then the people in this country are so dim they attack an m.p. for claiming cycle expenses of about 40 quid for cycling everywhere for bicycle maintainance
but mention nothing about those claiming for car travel
the trouble is we are in a country where you get away with murder if you are a criminal
in fact you would probably be a pilar of the community
but if you are honnest law abiding and working they can’t wait to slap you with speeding , parking etc etc fines or other unfair taxes
By: Mr Creosote - 6th February 2011 at 21:12
As others have pointed out, the very fact that the US continues to execute people suggests it is failing as a deterrent. As for the argument that wrongful convictions are unlikely now, I’m sure they made pretty much the same arguments back in 1975, when this poor devil was convicted of one of the most heinous crimes imaginable. If we’d had the death penalty here, he wouldn’t even have had those few brief months of life after his ultimate acquittal-
By: PeeDee - 6th February 2011 at 20:53
I wish I had the faith that some here have that mistakes will never be made. What really appals me is the admission that the death penalty is still justifiable, on balance, even if a miscarriage is made. Not if it was a family member who got the chop by mistake.
Sorry Sky, the chances of an innocent being put to death in this day and age are probably nil. The yanks haven’t made such a mistake since the early 70’s if I recall. Death row is a 5 stretch!
By the time the guilty are given the last breakfast, there will have been several appeals. The evidence is looked at dozens of times, by different Officers. An innocent would not hang or get pilled. They may get jailed, but they would not get hung.
Unless of course it Saddo Huss, in which case they strung him up as fast as possible, because it was FUN.
By: Sky High - 6th February 2011 at 19:53
I wish I had the faith that some here have that mistakes will never be made. What really appals me is the admission that the death penalty is still justifiable, on balance, even if a miscarriage is made. Not if it was a family member who got the chop by mistake.
By: PeeDee - 6th February 2011 at 19:53
The big disadvantage of the death penalty is that, if the wrong person has been convicted, another innocent life has been lost.
You’re surely not going to tell us that miscarriages of justice never happen, are you?
If we got it back, the red tape and bullpoo that would have to be gone through would pretty much ensure that only the guilty were roped up. I wouldn’t have a concern about that old chestnut.
And the miscarriages of justice you may be referring to? The Polish simpleton? His case would not have resulted in a Death penalty, lawyers and red tape would have stopped that. The Guildford 4 (Or 5 I don’t care). They were not innocent, they were released because the Police beat it out of them.
The introduction of the Death Penalty (Nearly typed DP…which is a different thing altogether!!!) would have a benefit of putting a better scaling factor downwards on other crimes, a sort of ceiling to benchmark from. I mean, you can get 8 years for aggrivated burglary. 10 years manslaughter?? That’s a bit arsey uppy in my opinion.
Flipside, if I was a bad guy, and I killed, say a cop after a Bank job. I know I’m for the rope…so I’d make it worthwhile and take out as many Lawmen as possible. However, mass killings still exist in the UK without the Rope.
I’ve said before, >£2,500 per week to keep a prisoner fed watered warm and Sky’ed up.
There would be far less crime if the Police kept Old-school relations with the real hard men. Now they are allowed to give a good kicking to the scumbags carrying knives etc. Police can’t allow this anymore.
By: Dr Strangelove - 6th February 2011 at 19:47
And if, one day, one of your family were to be executed for a crime they didn’t commit would the death penalty (based on average benefits against drawbacks) still get the Strangelove stamp of approval?
Because everyone who has ever been executed through a miscarriage of justice had a family, too.
Get with the program GA :rolleyes:
My only reservation is when it all goes wrong & the wrong person gets fried/hanged, just ask Timothy John Evans, oh hang on (sic) you can’t 😮
By: Lincoln 7 - 6th February 2011 at 19:43
In all seriousness, you probably couldn’t be more wrong.
What do you think the word means?
Impossible, eh?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1322077/False-DNA-test-led-father-to-reject-daughter.html
http://www.experiencedcriminallawyers.com/dna-evidence-in-criminal-cases-can-be-falsified-and-manufactured/
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/08/fabricating_dna.html
GA. T.B.H. I only looked at the first example from the Telegraph, which was clearly a human mistake, as stated.
I didn’t say it was 100% perfect, I said, it was virtualy impossible for it to be wrong.
Lincoln .7
By: Lincoln 7 - 6th February 2011 at 19:38
In all seriousness, you probably couldn’t be more wrong.
What do you think the word means?
Impossible, eh?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1322077/False-DNA-test-led-father-to-reject-daughter.html
http://www.experiencedcriminallawyers.com/dna-evidence-in-criminal-cases-can-be-falsified-and-manufactured/
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/08/fabricating_dna.html
Without cheating, and looking in a dictionary, I would say a deterrant, is being in possession of anything that would perhaps stop your enemy, or make them think twice before they attack you. I as a detterent to help prevent my home being broken into, have a burglar alarm system on all doors and windows, two dogs, and 300 watt PIR lights at the side of my house and also at the rear, OOOOPS, nearly forgot, I also live next door to the Police Station.
Would you agree that that is a deterrent?.
Lincoln .7
By: Grey Area - 6th February 2011 at 19:33
However, the whole death penalty (based on average benefits against drawbacks) does get the Strangelove stamp of approval.
And if, one day, one of your family were to be executed for a crime they didn’t commit would the death penalty (based on average benefits against drawbacks) still get the Strangelove stamp of approval?
Because everyone who has ever been executed through a miscarriage of justice had a family, too.
By: Dr Strangelove - 6th February 2011 at 19:27
The chair does kick a$$, far better than hanging 
My only reservation is when it all goes wrong & the wrong person gets fried/hanged, just ask Timothy John Evans, oh hang on (sic) you can’t 😮
However, the whole death penalty (based on average benefits against drawbacks) does get the Strangelove stamp of approval.
By: bazv - 6th February 2011 at 19:25
Less likely!! They need to be 100% copper-bottomed guaranteed not to be miscarried. And that will never happen.
I usually use understatement 🙂
By: Grey Area - 6th February 2011 at 19:24
L.O.L. GA, I consider that when they dropped the Atom bomb on Hiroshima, that was a good example of a deterrant:p so I do know what it means.
In all seriousness, you probably couldn’t be more wrong.
What do you think the word means?
D,N,A. over the last decade has made it virtualy impossible for the test results to be wrong.
Impossible, eh?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1322077/False-DNA-test-led-father-to-reject-daughter.html
http://www.experiencedcriminallawyers.com/dna-evidence-in-criminal-cases-can-be-falsified-and-manufactured/
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/08/fabricating_dna.html
By: Lincoln 7 - 6th February 2011 at 19:23
Less likely!! They need to be 100% copper-bottomed guaranteed not to be miscarried. And that will never happen.
Just be honest Peter, if one of your family was murdered by a burglar who had broken into your house, was then caught, and although he made no verbal admission to the crime, but his DNA was all over your house, what would you say then?.D,N,A. over the last decade has made it virtualy impossible for the test results to be wrong.
Lincoln. 7
By: Lincoln 7 - 6th February 2011 at 19:18
….as well as “turn the other cheek”…..
As I said, and at the risk of repeating myself, I aint getting into religeon.
Lincoln .7
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February 6, 2011 at 5:05 pm