How do Airshows run?

Please dont apologise, your have answered all my questions and had i asked about airshows for profit, I would have asked the other question in a follow up 😀

Thanks again.

My question about running as a business (for profit), was not regarding the airshows themselves, bur rather the individual aircraft operator.:D

My apologies – I will read the question next time! We are dealing with two separate entities here, display operators and commercial businesses. Most civilian displays are made by enthusuiasts, either individual or group, who provide their aircraft for pleasure and seek to cover their appearance expenses. Organisations like Air Atlantique providing joy rides do so on a commercial basis and have to cover their costs which will include a percentage to the display host (another source of revenue for the display organisers) which is why your trip round the bay cost more than your Copenhagen leg. The fact that a Dragon Rapide can only carry a fraction of what a 737/Airbus can is also a factor.
Blue Max – you are not doing anything wrong. I found that running a large military display for 30000 plus generated the need for someone who not only provided the commentary but also oversaw the emergency planning and execution. As display director for such a size display I needed this level of experience. My comment was somewhat tongue in cheek and remains so.

[QUOTE= Don’t forget the display commentator and director. ![/QUOTE]

Must be getting somthing wrong, as display dirrector for the Sywell Show ive never been paid a penny:eek:
As for the comentator we get some bloke from “Flypast” to pop along:D
Must say a thanks to Key who continue to support us and many other events and provide both comentator and PA.:)

This is large subject but I will try and be brief! Firstly, there is no way that an airshow can make a profit, never mind break even, through the flying and static aircraft displays alone.

My question about running as a business (for profit), was not regarding the airshows themselves, bur rather the individual aircraft operator.

Would an aircraft such as Air Atlantique’s Dragon Rapide (pay-2-ride) make a profit, or break even?

I remember when i was in Duxford, the Dragon ride was more than my Easyjet return trip from Copenhagen…:D

You forgot Margate which is a prime example of the display line being a little too far from the viewers.

Several aircraft operators also set charges based on the distance of the display venue from their operating base (so, the further away the venue is away from the operating base, the more they will have to pay).

Is there any government, or EU, support the airshow can apply for?

No, not directly.

However, many airshows here in the UK are seafront shows (e.g. Southend, Southport, Sunderland, Lowestoft, Eastbourne) which are run by their local council authority.

Over the years several of these council-organised seafront shows have been indirectly in receipt of financial assistance from Europe, as part of the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF) finance.

I’ll second your final paragraph. Thanks to everyone involved in organizing the airshows we punters enjoy so much. I think I can honestly say I’ve never been to an airshow that totally disappointed me. Yes,sometimes the display line is a bit further away from the crowd than I’d like but other than that I’ve no real complaints. Even the small, inexpensive (admissionwise) shows always provide something to make attendance worth the effort. Even a wet day doesn’t dampen my enthusiasm though the photography might suffer.

Thanks Lothar (and everyone else of cause) for a great insight into the world of airshow organisation/arranging.

I never even thought about the safety issues (besides air safty). I know there are organisations providing these services cheap, or free, but it still need to be organised and there are most likely some kind of fee/payment involved (even if its a free diner/lunch).

I’m pretty sure I speak for the majority of readers here, when I say; that we are VERY gratefull to anyone involved in organising airshows anywhere. Keep up the good work, as you might already know, its fully appriciated.

Airshow management/costs

This is large subject but I will try and be brief! Firstly, there is no way that an airshow can make a profit, never mind break even, through the flying and static aircraft displays alone. Other attractions, sponsorship, hospitality deals, catering concessions, joyride concessions and whatever else you can come up with are needed to boost the income from admission fees. In answer to some of the questions raised:
Display fees: the fees for civilian displays vary hugely. You are quite right, rarity/spectacle command higher fees. However as an organiser I would expect to provide a minimum of free fuel and accommodation to all participants. Thereafter it is a question of how far your display budget stretches and who/what is the best value for money. The majority of civilian displays are extremely professional and provided by enthusiasts. However in 5 years of running military displays I experienced some idiots too.
Military participation is in my experience always free apart from any accommodation needs that might arise. This participation comes out of the military PR budget.
Military procurement. This used to, and still may, be done via the MOD Participation Committee who were responsible for the allocation of all military aircraft including Red Arrows, Falcons, BBMF. Applications were treated on an order of priority: National events (which would include RIAT), military At Home Days, Duxford, ongoing events such as Duxford, Southend & Lowestoft events, other military open days and lastly the one offs where anticipated attendance and location would be the main considerations. One way of improving chances is to piggyback on to another display i.e. be on the same day and relatively near so that you can be included en-route. There is a small village close to me that gets a visit from the BBMF Lancaster for their fete every year this way.
Venue I don’t think I know of any organiser that does not own/control the venue. The hiring of a venue would be astronomical.
Costs Apart from display costs (fees/fuel/accommodation) there are substantial costs involved with safety/security. You need a rehearsed disaster plan which involves police & medical teams as well as security people. Loos, lost children facilities, medical/St Johns Ambulance and information places need to be provided and funded. Don’t forget the display commentator and director.
I hope this is of help but organising/running an airshow is not for the faint hearted – I got my first grey hairs after running my first!

Now I’m wondering (its neverending i know) how special guests like Red Arrows and BBMF are arranged.

I think I read recently (perhaps in the Haynes Spitfire manual) that the BBMF have a graded charging system depending on what the aircraft are asked to do; flypasts being free, landings having a cost attached, and displays costing more.

No idea about the Red Arrows though.

Graeme

You got that right. Most of the Duxford shows are competing with somewhere else for punters. most notably the Shuttleworth Collection. This year Flying Legends is competing with about 5 other airshows, the major one being RIAT at Fairford. As has happened for about the last 4 or 5 years they are also in competition with the F1 British Grand Prix. this confuses some petrol heads who are not totally sure where their interest lies.:D

Yes, I can imagine its a fantastic feeling when everything falls into place.

I’m sure the planning can be a logistic nightmare. I can’t really imagine any other venture spending that amount of effort, when everything depends on the weather, thats kind of a big “unknown” hanging out there.

Is there any government, or EU, support the airshow can apply for?

Here in Denmark we only have a few airshows each year (and those are in physically separate parts of the country), so once the weather is there, people will go. The UK have quite a few and I’m sure they must somehow compete for the attending public.

When I was in Duxford (VE-Day show 2005) it seemed like a lot of people to me, but I was told that they had expected a lot more.

If you look at the economics of running an Airshow you would never run one!!!At Sywell we try to cover the cost of the Aircraft by Corporate Hospitality and Sponsorship, for our little 3hr show somewhere in the region of £25K:eek: and thats not including all the site expenses, fences, toilets PA etc. This the last two displays has not happened and we are then relying on you the paying public coming through the gate in the right numbers. Last time we had torrential rain the morning of the show and not enough came through, the result a £10K loss!!!! better than the time before by the way.
What with weather, people trying to get in for nothing moanging on the gate price etc etc etc its not for the faint hearted:(
Its a lot of work, alot of stress and on the day when it all comes together, the weather Gods are on side and the paying public have had a good day its becomes all worth it. 🙂

BBMF only charge a nominal fee for fuel, don’t they?

As for the Red Arrows,Blue Angels,Snow Birds,Thunderbirds and all other Teams the process goes like this.

The Teams get request in for next years show by mid season this year, The way the Teams pick shows is Active Duty Base get first choice, then the larger Private Shows and then all others.

Now for Ind. Military Displays they sort of follow the same process but the smaller shows usually can get the East/West Coast Demo Teams.

As for the Teams and Demo Teams that go to Private Shows there is set contract that the DoD send out(This is in North America) that outlines they cost,hotels,cars, and all other actual flight operations.

Now you’ve got me thinking. I know I’ve seen something on how those two organisations decide where they are going to appear but I cannot remember where. I will have to have a think about it and let you know if I remember. Unless someone gets in befor me with the info of course.

Now I’m wondering (its neverending i know) how special guests like Red Arrows and BBMF are arranged.

It seems that the Red Arrows would swallow a large part on the ticket money (at least at smaller airshows), are they purely goodwill ambassadors?

I think you may have something of an understanding there. It seems to make sense to me.

I assume the “fee” also depends on the aircraft in question (besides fuel).

If the aircraft is rare and in demand (surely no aircraft can make all shows) they might be able to charge a bit more.

A show might not pay too much to attract a Chipmunk, but dig a bit deeper to see a P-47 (disregarding the actual fuel economy).

I would say a very simple answer (I like things simple) is with a lot of effort on the part of the organisers and volunteer helpers. Not a lot of use in answering the question I know. I don’t ask how airshows are run, I’m just glad that they are so I pay for my ticket(s) in advance and turn up on the apropriate day.