Simples !!!
I have been asked by a few people and seen people post on how do we do this or that for our project.
Well to put myself in the fireing line I have put together one or two inexpensive ideas for making thingslike fuselage frames and flaring the holes and making flanges around complicated curves.
Hopefully if I dont get shot down in flames I will post some more.(A bit like the masked magician who gives away the secrets):diablo::diablo:
Firstly how to flare lighting holes in frames etc without going to a lot of expense and buying costly flaring kits. materials are one Hard wood block about 2 inch square and about 6 inch long. One length of hard wood dowl about 2 inch in diameter and another about 3/4 inch and one about 1 inch.
Take a length of the thick dowl about 2 inch’s long and pin and glue a piece of the 3/4 inch dowl about 1 inch long to one end.Take another piece and do the same with the 1 inch dowl attaching a piece of that 1 inch long to a larger diameter piece of dowl. This is just for the initial holes as you need bigger flares you do the same with larger pieces.If you have a wood lathe you can do this out of one piece of solid timber. Then with the hard wood block you drill a one inch hole in the side all the way through at one end then repeat with the 3/4 inch hole at the other.Then with a file and some sand paper chamfer the edge of the holes top and bottom at about a 45 degree angle and round it off to finish.On the dowls do the same on the bottom corner of the face with the smaller dowl centred.
You should then after a bit of work end up with a tool looking like th eone in my photo’s. Very simple and very cheap but if you are carefull in its making it will give you many hours of service.The ideal useage is with a small p1 ton press you can purchase from a well known web site for not to much money.
You can see how effective it is at giving a reasonably effective result.
I hope those that have been asking find this helpfull??.
Mike E
http://www.whirlwidn fighter project.org
By: Rocketeer - 29th September 2011 at 07:03
This is a good thread Mike!
I was wondering….I need Frame 9 side channels and lower channel, don’t suppose you could make them please?!!
By: TonyT - 1st July 2011 at 23:13
Depends on your definition of black… when I lived in the UK the local autopaint suppliers carried 14 different shades of black paint. “Taxi Black” was noticeably darker than the others.
Actually he carried 14 different shades of dark grey……….
And remember Black and White are not colours :p
By: knifeedgeturn - 1st July 2011 at 18:21
Black? black? “oh johnny no….
By: ZRX61 - 1st July 2011 at 17:44
Depends on your definition of black… when I lived in the UK the local autopaint suppliers carried 14 different shades of black paint. “Taxi Black” was noticeably darker than the others. 😉
By: knifeedgeturn - 1st July 2011 at 12:25
As I understand it, soap turns black at about 280 deg, whereas, dural, and alclad need about 500 deg, and once it’s black, it wont go any blacker.
By: lumpy - 1st July 2011 at 09:52
or run the oxy/acet carburizing flame over it to turn it black, then add Oxy & burn off the soot. Same result.
The soap trick works quite well for bent castings.. motorcycle levers spring to mind.
I dont bother with soap , or soot , for motorcycle levers , just hold the base in a vise , apply pressure to the end ( about half as much as you would need to bend the lever cold ) ,then apply heat to the bent area and it will start to straighten when its hot enough .Works a treat with quality original equipment forged levers , but a waste of time with cheapo die cast ones .
By: richw_82 - 1st July 2011 at 08:23
Excellent info. Thanks all of you!
Regards,
Rich
By: Ken - 1st July 2011 at 07:40
With aircraft Alloys and the soap trick you still have to quench it in cold water to make it soft, trouble is if you havent heated it quite enough its still hard and a fraction too much and it cracks when you cool it… learned from bitter experience.
Dont mention it to the CAA man he would die.
Ken
By: ZRX61 - 30th June 2011 at 22:08
On rivets and getting nice neat lines we mark out the panels and on british aircraft you are usualy on a 1 inch spacing for rivets always drill pilot holes in your panels to get the location right and skin pins are a god send to hold panels together prior to final rivetting.
Don’t forget the formula for edge spacing etc 😉
By: ZRX61 - 30th June 2011 at 22:05
When doing this to ally, get a bar of household soap and rub it all over the area being done, when heated the soap will turn black, remove the heat, this is the temp that anneals alluminium (softened sufficently) and the blackened soap tells you you have it at the correct temp.
or run the oxy/acet carburizing flame over it to turn it black, then add Oxy & burn off the soot. Same result.
The soap trick works quite well for bent castings.. motorcycle levers spring to mind.
Also:
Lots of useful info at allmetalshaping.com, tinmantech & metalmeet etc.
By: TonyT - 30th June 2011 at 21:55
One thing that always intrigues me is rows and rows of perfectly set rivets! I’m a dab hand with the pop rivet gun, but can anybody give advice on setting rivets, using a gun and a bucking bar?
Regards
Rich
Go to page 4/16 ish
http://www.iflyamerica.org/riveting.asp
http://dad.walterfamily.org/rv/TonyBingelis/Rivet%20Gun%20Notes%20and%20Riveting%20Tips.html
Just takes practice, drilling them out, repairing, rivetting..used to be scared when I first started out, but now I can quite happily unzip a wing in a morning and start to rebuild it, adding the wash out wash in etc without batting an eyelid to it……..
By: TonyT - 30th June 2011 at 21:49
What you have to remember if you are working with old recovered/rescued/slavaged original parts that the age hardened issue will be present and trying to straighten out mangled parts can be a problem but we have tended to use a blow lamp liberaly waved over the general area needed to be unbent to get a nice even temperature throu out the material then using a light press etc to unbend crash material etc for example and the results have been reasonable.DONT FORGET if you have material you are working with and you intend to re incorporate it into your build if it has a crack on a fold line or in a cut out to DRILL a small hole at the end of the crack line this will stop it from spreading any further.
When doing this to ally, get a bar of household soap and rub it all over the area being done, when heated the soap will turn black, remove the heat, this is the temp that anneals alluminium (softened sufficently) and the blackened soap tells you you have it at the correct temp.
By: Firebex - 30th June 2011 at 21:16
good ideas
It seems as if I have started something here long may it last.
Yes the matter of work hardening and heat treatment does or can come into the issue of aircraft grade aluminium.
If you are just doing static projects and using commercial aluminium the problem rarely raises its ugly head.
What you have to remember if you are working with old recovered/rescued/slavaged original parts that the age hardened issue will be present and trying to straighten out mangled parts can be a problem but we have tended to use a blow lamp liberaly waved over the general area needed to be unbent to get a nice even temperature throu out the material then using a light press etc to unbend crash material etc for example and the results have been reasonable.DONT FORGET if you have material you are working with and you intend to re incorporate it into your build if it has a crack on a fold line or in a cut out to DRILL a small hole at the end of the crack line this will stop it from spreading any further.
On rivets and getting nice neat lines we mark out the panels and on british aircraft you are usualy on a
1 inch spacing for rivets always drill pilot holes in your panels to get the location right and skin pins are a god send to hold panels together prior to final rivetting.
I have a lot of info on file relating to metal working etc ,this includes using English Wheels ,folders and rollers.If anyone needs any help in that area please let me know.
By: ZRX61 - 30th June 2011 at 17:13
One thing that always intrigues me is rows and rows of perfectly set rivets! I’m a dab hand with the pop rivet gun, but can anybody give advice on setting rivets, using a gun and a bucking bar?
Regards
Rich
I normally use a 3X gun, but have used a 6X when bashing 1/4in steel rivets into Browning M2 side plates (& then have my dental fillings reset).
I have a rivet spacing marker that I got from LAS – I use this to space the rivets for drilling.
Edit with link
That’s cheating!
(mumbles) & also exactly the same thing I use… 😉
By: FarlamAirframes - 30th June 2011 at 15:50
I have a rivet spacing marker that I got from LAS – I use this to space the rivets for drilling.
Edit with link
By: richw_82 - 30th June 2011 at 14:59
One thing that always intrigues me is rows and rows of perfectly set rivets! I’m a dab hand with the pop rivet gun, but can anybody give advice on setting rivets, using a gun and a bucking bar?
Regards
Rich
By: FarlamAirframes - 30th June 2011 at 13:34
I have used the stretcher on a U-section and it works well – just have to bend it in at the end.
On the flaring tools – I have a set of punches and flares from Frost restoration. I used them on stainless and alu.
By: MikeHoulder - 30th June 2011 at 13:31
Many, many thanks, Firebex. If you’re ever in Argentina …. All I can do otherwise is send you a virtual pint of Tetleys. I wish the world was a bit smaller.
Mike
By: 12jaguar - 30th June 2011 at 08:20
Some good advice here:cool:
Personally I prefer the mdf former method for making flanged frames, but then again most of the ones I’ve made are ‘U’ section so not really suitable for shringer/stretchers; I have use thos on L section formers with some success though.
Keep the good ideas flowing 😀
By: Ken - 30th June 2011 at 07:44
Just a thought but are you using aircraft Aluminium as that can crack very easily folding over formers without heat treatment first, plus it can crack using the shrinker and stretcher (especialy stretching and usualy just as you think it need one more tweak). Ordinary Ali for ‘static’ projects are no problem though. I know having scrapped quite a few parts with cracking, it can also crack after heat treatment if you work it too much as it ‘work hardens’. on very complex flanges it has to be heat treated, part folded over, then heat treated again so its soft enough for the final forming.
For those who dont know, heat treating means putting the Ali in a calibrated oven at a temperature of 500 degress for approx 20 minutes depending on thickness, then quenching straight away in cold water, this makes it very soft but warps the panel like mad which can be hard to straighten sometimes. Incidentaly you can only heat treat a part 3 times maximim as after that the properties of the Ali is altered.
Sorry to gop on but just thought I would pass o my tips from experience
Ken
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June 29, 2011 at 8:27 pm