How effective are Maritime Patrol Aircraft?

The MPA aircraft can detect the enemy search radars well before they enetr the detection range of the enemy radar, something which they practice regularly.

The very fact that they can do so allows them to fix the enemy position, or forces the enemy force to run under EMCON.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Unicorn

They always struck me as particularly vulnerable to enemy air defences and interception if spotted. Often their operational role will take them away from friendly air cover and dangerously close to long range SAM position, either ground based or ship board. And if the enemy has medium/long range interceptors. So if you are operating against a 2 penny enemy then cool, but against a credible enemy it must be a bit of a sucky situation to be in a slow PC-3 which doubles as a radio beacon.

Then again I’m only guessing :diablo:

Kinda, but they are nearly all being used for a wider remit now and many now have some overland recon ability (as well as stand off ground attack), so although they are expensive (eg the enormous cost of the new RAF Nimrod MRA4) they can do so many useful things that they probably represent very good value for a country. You could probably have an interesting debate as to if their anti submarine abilities are being compromised now that they appear to be evolving into Multi-role reconnaissance and attack platforms.

Would it be correct to sum up the situation as follows: one can’t really afford not to have MPA, even if their effectiveness is not 100% proven.

It can also offer you an extremely fast response and a long loiter time if you don’t have surface assets in the area.

Also, you have to remember that only part of an MPA’s value is found in ASW work. Surface patrol and ASuW, fisheries patrol and enforcement, drug interdiction, search and rescue, and numerous other roles all factor into using MPA aircraft.

MPA often operate as part of a package. Subs typically operate alone, so if you find one with an ASW ship or a submarine of your own, you might be on about equal terms or even disadvantaged. An MPA is a bit of a force multiplier, not vulnerable to enemy subs and able to quickly transit to an area where an enemy sub might be. Using a sub or frigate to hunt down an enemy sub makes it likely that the hunter will become the hunted. With the exception of a few submarines (such as Kilos) armed with short range SAMs, MPAs are one of the few platforms that can search for and attach enemy subs with impunity.

So, you do a lot of your searching with other platforms, ASW frigates and submarines, and then call in an MPA to swing the odds heavily in your favor. When it comes to ASW, they’re also great for a bit of “area denial” dropping sonobuoys and pinging away since they don’t need to worry about exposing themselves like a submarine might. If an enemy submarine is close, the MPA finds it. If it’s not, you’ve forced the enemy sub to go somewhere else. Area denial.

Logan Hartke

Well, you either can detect a sub or not………..Clearly, the parties involved should have the answers?

No, like others said the variables are so huge it is unbelevable.

The answer is subject to a massive number of variables.

Acoustic conditions at the time, water temperature, atmospheric conditions, the condition of the submarine (particularly its indiscretion rate and how long since it was last serviced), the quality of the equipment on board the MPA, the tactical and strategic situation and most importantly the training and quality of the people on both sides.

That said, enough serious air forces and navies around the world consider them worth the expense to acquire, operate, upgrade and replace them.

That is an answer in itself.

Unicorn

I tend to agree with this statement, but at the same time, subs are still credited with being one of the most stealthy equipments out there…

Absolutely useless without a datum to work from (SOSUS or the like, using communications) or a chokepoint to work.

The answer is subject to a massive number of variables.

Acoustic conditions at the time, water temperature, atmospheric conditions, the condition of the submarine (particularly its indiscretion rate and how long since it was last serviced), the quality of the equipment on board the MPA, the tactical and strategic situation and most importantly the training and quality of the people on both sides.

That said, enough serious air forces and navies around the world consider them worth the expense to acquire, operate, upgrade and replace them.

That is an answer in itself.

Unicorn

Almost all simulations were/are based on WW2 experience, in reality knowbody knows now. Its one of those things whereby we nned WW3 to happen in order to find out. Add to that all the different variables and it becomes even more intriguing.

Well, you either can detect a sub or not………..Clearly, the parties involved should have the answers?

Well, the world Militaries operate hundreds of them with the USN currently working on an Orion replacement. (i.e. P-8A) So, I guess that should say something?

Almost all simulations were/are based on WW2 experience, in reality knowbody knows now. Its one of those things whereby we nned WW3 to happen in order to find out. Add to that all the different variables and it becomes even more intriguing.

If you find someone who’ll actually tell you let us all know.

Daniel

Well, the world Militaries operate hundreds of them with the USN currently working on an Orion replacement. (i.e. P-8A) So, I guess that should say something?

How effective are Maritime Patrol Aircraft in the hunt for Submarines?

If you find someone who’ll actually tell you let us all know.

Daniel