How many airlines would do this?

So just out of interest, what happened to the passengers of the Edinburgh flight, do they then become delayed? Does an airline sacrifice one delay for another?

Don’t know about this specific case, but yes sometimes they do “sacrifice one delay for another”. They might elect to delay the flight with the least passengers or with the fewest connections at destination (especially if a tech delay is going to go overnight and they need to hotac the pax – not an issue in Ryanair’s case! :p ), they may delay one flight in preference to another because of a night-time airport closure, or crew hours (wanting to get a crew back to base in hours), or a maintenance input, need to have an aircraft at a specific base overnight (especially if one flight needs to be cancelled), etc, etc. That’s what Ops Control do – try to find the solution that disrupts the operation as a whole the least, not only for those immediately affected but also for the follow-on operations.

If I remember correctly, a pitot heat problem usually precludes flight into known icing condition and limits to VMC only (was on a Delta flight some years ago with a similar problem and the captain said they’d dispatch if a bit of cloud in the LAX area disipated – it didn’t!), so the broken aircraft was probably not a practical proposition for either EDI or BRS until fixed.

A

Similar happened to me on GO service to Palma from Bristol, we boarded and the crew found a fault with the aircraft (pitot heating element) so they off loaded us and we boarded another aircraft parked alongside that was scheduled to depart to Edinburgh, we were delayed a total of 20 mins which was outstanding considering what the delay could have been.

So just out of interest, what happened to the passengers of the Edinburgh flight, do they then become delayed? Does an airline sacrifice one delay for another?

Adam

Jet 22

Check your Private messages, posts of this nature will not be tolerated.

To the rest, I have cleaned up the posts replying to Jet 22s, hopefully it’ll stay on topic now 🙂

No, you misunderstand. The aircraft they used for us was going to remain in Dublin overnight so by using it and a standby crew they were able to get us out on time but they did not inconvenience any other passengers. I only posted this as it’s the sort of thing I would have expected from the likes of BA but never from Ryanair given their reputation for not giving a sh*t about their passengers. I just wanted to highlight that they are not always bad and very often go out of their way to keep the passengers happy.

I can recall a time when BA purposefully kept a standby Trident and crew ready on it’s shuttle service for just such circumstances and for when any given flight may have been oversubscribed (you could just turn up and buy a seat in those days). I can also remember a TV commercial showing a Trident cruising with just one passenger aboard, to prove their point…

Just in from work and saw 4 FR 73Hs sitting on remote stands.

Part of the reason an Operations department are employed!

You mean they actually do something worthwhile?!

Paul

Don’t even think there’d be any extra expense – nothing significant anyway. Aircraft-A was going to BRS whilst Aircraft-B was staying in DUB, and the situation was reversed. As both are 738s, no cost change there. And the standby crew were being paid a salary anyway (maybe they get sector/hours pay, but the late running crew would have got less as they didn’t operate to balance it out). The only extra expense I could see would be if the original crew were BRS based and the standby crew were DUB based – in that case, two lots of hotac necessary for the crews. However, even that cost more than offset by having an aircraft in BRS ready to do the next flight.

A

Spot on Andy. I’ve been watching this thread over the last few days and it’s purely utilising the resources you have available, with the expense of a few SITA messages notifying everyone of what you’re intending on doing, recovering a flying programme and maintaining Ryanair’s high propoganda On-Time Performance statistics by getting another flight away on time without a needless delay. Part of the reason an Operations department are employed!

I was merely pointing out that Ryanair do make an effort for their passengers despite the extra expense involved with sending a different aircraft to BRS.

Don’t even think there’d be any extra expense – nothing significant anyway. Aircraft-A was going to BRS whilst Aircraft-B was staying in DUB, and the situation was reversed. As both are 738s, no cost change there. And the standby crew were being paid a salary anyway (maybe they get sector/hours pay, but the late running crew would have got less as they didn’t operate to balance it out). The only extra expense I could see would be if the original crew were BRS based and the standby crew were DUB based – in that case, two lots of hotac necessary for the crews. However, even that cost more than offset by having an aircraft in BRS ready to do the next flight.

A

I don’t know what all the fuss is about. Can’t believe I’m defending Ryanair as I hate them, but… I know Ryanair get bad PR for not dealing with some situations well, but I doubt they go out of their way to make things more difficult than they need to be.

So, there was an aircraft already on the ground due to RON in Dublin, and an aircraft coming in 1.5 hours late that wasn’t going to RON in Dublin. They effectively swapped the two aircraft plots around – nothing major, airlines do it all the time and a complication will only arise from swapping the two plots if one of the aircraft is scheduled for a maintenance input at a specific base that night.

As for the standby crew… That’s what they’re on standby for – to recover irregular ops. For all we know, the crew on the delayed inbound might have been delayed enough to be out of hours to operate their final sector, and if so Ryanair would either have had to cancel their last flight (and the resulting first flight the following day as the aircraft would have been out of position), or put the standby crew onto it. Again, that’s what standy crews are for – no point in having crews on standby if you don’t use them, and if this all occurred late on in the day (which it sounds like it did) after all the crew scheduled to operate reported and sickness is therefore not going to be an issue for the remainder of the day, then you might as well use the standby crew to recover a delay.

Andy

I fully agree with all of that, Andy. I was not commenting on the logic of it as it makes complete sense to me. I was merely pointing out that Ryanair do make an effort for their passengers despite the extra expense involved with sending a different aircraft to BRS. As for the inbound crew going out of hours, I hadn’t thought about that. That would be a very good explanation for why they swapped everything around. I guess the point I’m trying to make is that Ryanair are not really as bad as everyone will have you believe and do go out of their way to avoid inconveniencing their customers.

I don’t know what all the fuss is about. Can’t believe I’m defending Ryanair as I hate them, but… I know Ryanair get bad PR for not dealing with some situations well, but I doubt they go out of their way to make things more difficult than they need to be.

So, there was an aircraft already on the ground due to RON in Dublin, and an aircraft coming in 1.5 hours late that wasn’t going to RON in Dublin. They effectively swapped the two aircraft plots around – nothing major, airlines do it all the time and a complication will only arise from swapping the two plots if one of the aircraft is scheduled for a maintenance input at a specific base that night.

As for the standby crew… That’s what they’re on standby for – to recover irregular ops. For all we know, the crew on the delayed inbound might have been delayed enough to be out of hours to operate their final sector, and if so Ryanair would either have had to cancel their last flight (and the resulting first flight the following day as the aircraft would have been out of position), or put the standby crew onto it. Again, that’s what standy crews are for – no point in having crews on standby if you don’t use them, and if this all occurred late on in the day (which it sounds like it did) after all the crew scheduled to operate reported and sickness is therefore not going to be an issue for the remainder of the day, then you might as well use the standby crew to recover a delay.

Andy

When I was in MAN last wedensday I arrived at 0730 and left about 1400. The whole day there were 3 LS 733s and 2 WW 733s just sitting there all day.

Is it the same everyday?

Cant speak for other bases but the NCL LS 733s are flying the most doing routes that the 757 used to do in the summer, Krakow and Murcia for example. The 757 just does the Canaries runs. Saying that of late things have started to Quieten down a bit for Jet2.com

Not uncommon at all, airlines “sometimes” have spare aircraft on the ground, also some of the time they have standby crews, like today, I am on standby waiting for the phone to ring. They are also obligated to get you to your destination, it doesn’t stipulate in the terms & conditions how, they could bus you there and there wouldn’t be a thing you could do legally.
Personally I think you are lucky they had a spare aircraft & crew on standby, if they had not then you “may” have found you wouldn’t have been as happy as you are now 🙂

I agree I was very lucky. That is my point exactly. I would not have expected Ryanair of all airlines to have taken the trouble to put on another aircraft and crew (and all the associated expense) just for an hour and a half delay. The impression that is given of Ryanair is that they always treat their customers with contempt which they obviously did not do on this occasion. Having said that, I was also “lucky” on the return flight as the aircraft nearly diverted to Cardiff due to fog in Bristol. Had that happened, the flight to Dublin would have been cancelled and goodness knows when I’d have got to Dublin!!

When I was in MAN last wedensday I arrived at 0730 and left about 1400. The whole day there were 3 LS 733s and 2 WW 733s just sitting there all day.

Is it the same everyday?

Suppose with it been the winter season now airlines will have spare aircraft to hand. For example Jet2.com have one 757 based at NCL that flys four times a week to TFS LPA and ACE. I was wondering if Jet2 use her as standby for any problems else where on the Jet2.com network.

Not uncommon at all, airlines “sometimes” have spare aircraft on the ground, also some of the time they have standby crews, like today, I am on standby waiting for the phone to ring. They are also obligated to get you to your destination, it doesn’t stipulate in the terms & conditions how, they could bus you there and there wouldn’t be a thing you could do legally.
Personally I think you are lucky they had a spare aircraft & crew on standby, if they had not then you “may” have found you wouldn’t have been as happy as you are now 🙂

FR always have 1-2 aircraft sitting spare in DUB some days Ive seen 3-4 parked on the old runway doing nothing.

Most if not all airlines will have crews on standby so I dont think its that amazing.

EI and RE are the same, they always have 1-2 aircraft sitting spare.

No, you misunderstand.

I got you now. 🙂

1L.

I’ve had 2 similar stories with Ryanair…

Firstly, last June we were due to be flying home Rome Ciampino – Stansted. Our aircraft on its way to Ciampino suffered from a medical emergency diversion, thus having to turn round and head back to the UK (I’m not sure how far they’d got when the emergency occured). We were then told that due to it being a rather uncertain situation, our departure would be delayed inevitably. Then all of a sudden, the screens showed a departure time just 30 minutes later than scheduled. Upon boarding the aircraft, the captain explained that they (a standby crew) had flown the aircraft EMPTY from Luton to Rome to pick us up, due to uncertainty regarding our original outbound aircraft.

Secondly, was just last 2 weeks ago. We were due to fly Girona – Rome, and 2 days before the flight the ground handlers in Rome announced a strike from 0900-1800 (our flight was due to land in Rome at 1400). Instead of cancelling the flight and making us fly a day later, they shifted the whole timetable 8 hours ahead meaning we could arrive in Rome once the strike had finished.

It’s not all as bad as the newspapers say!

No, you misunderstand. The aircraft they used for us was going to remain in Dublin overnight so by using it and a standby crew they were able to get us out on time but they did not inconvenience any other passengers. I only posted this as it’s the sort of thing I would have expected from the likes of BA but never from Ryanair given their reputation for not giving a sh*t about their passengers. I just wanted to highlight that they are not always bad and very often go out of their way to keep the passengers happy.

I wonder how many full service carriers would do this?

Aircraft and crew swaps are not uncommon as a way of reducing delays, although they tend to use spare aircraft rather than use one meant to be operating another flight.

I suspect the other flight had fewer passengers booked than yours so the decision would be based on delaying fewer people. Little compensation for those booked on that flight, although I obviously understand why you were happy.

1L.