How Many American soldier ahve Died In Iraq?

I’m glad for you Flood…keep on doing it….and, don’t put words in my mouth, i simply said “do something”, nothing more nothing less…no need to get creative there with sinister thoughts just to make yourself feel better.

I did. Well… nearly.

My sister and I started the paperwork, as part of a group, to help sponsor an Iraqi farm worker and his family in our names (a birthday present!) but we had to stop when the father, eldest son (9 years old, I think) and three other villagers were shot dead. Strangely enough the people trying to do all the arrangements were suddenly not welcome in the village and quietly warned that, as they apparently worked for westerners, it might be better if they left – rather quickly.
That is why I say ‘Too many’.
It may sound patronising but the villagers just needed the essentials to help get them back on their feet, and this is where we were to come in.
They were either driving to or from the fields and shot for amusement, as a sign, or they were mistaken for bad guys; either way their pick-up was riddled with gun fire. Locals apparently say it was ‘military’, but we were told that it could just as easily have been one of any number of disenfranchised groups who have gotten hold of guns and are using them to further their own cause.
I do not know whether these villagers were killed by the army, the police, or any ‘freedom’ fighters/terrorists, but their families and friends want nothing more to do with the west – whether from the point of view of liberators or oppressors – having made their minds up already. These people are, to the authorities, just a few more bodies in a vast sea of death so there can be no investigation; to the families there is no need for an investigation because the authorities are fully aware of who did the killing.
From such seeds are terrorists/freedom fighters grown.

Vortex, you say do something: what have YOU in mind? I regret that the world is running out of tigers, but the Palestinians (and others) make great play of their suicide bombers – is that what you are suggesting?
I blew my chance of going out there (I didn’t have the appropriate jabs whilst someone else did), and I doubt that my presence would have made any difference one way or another. In the meantime I – and others, and much more eloquently – can try to counter the vociferous ‘USA is always right’ crowd by pointing out that the use of force can have terrifying consequences for EVERYONE. I would be just as happy if alcohol and drugs were totally banned from what is or is not officially classified as a war zone – after all just imagine that the drunk grunt had been driving a tank instead, or piloting a warplane…

Meanwhile I believe my sister is now secretly trying to sponsor an Orang-utan or two in Malaya for my birthday (and I’d be happy for a pair of socks).
I am afraid this has not been an easy one.

Flood.

so do something about it…or continue on and say “too many”….why don’t you do something about it? why i ask? If you take it so strongly, do something about it. DO IT NOW! DO IT NOW!DO IT NOW!DO IT NOW!DO IT NOW!DO IT NOW!DO IT NOW!DO IT NOW!DO IT NOW!DO IT NOW!DO IT NOW!DO IT NOW!DO IT NOW!DO IT NOW!
😡

Thanks Nermal, that is what I was referring to.

So, Sauron, has that been reported in America?
Just because you say it is crap doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. And if it didn’t get reported then what else doesn’t get reported in ‘the land of the free’?
Wouldn’t look good for the sheep to know that the troops can get drunk and try to hand feed tigers in a zoo, would it? Better to let them think that the guy got savaged by a rabid Iraqi or something.
“Yeah, maw, ah waz defendin’ my outpost teachen them E-raki’s deemo’cracee when wun av ‘em jumped up an’ bit ma arm clean arf! Heh, just shows them critters is learnin’ reel gud!”

Still, by your reckoning at least the US public are aware that whilst one or two US soldiers are killed or injured everyday there are at least ten times that amount of Iraqi civilians who also pay the price. Have to admit that information didn’t get a lot of air-time in Britain either – and even the tiger story was allowed to quietly fade away.
Chances are that the US public is then also aware that things are no better in Afghanistan either; leave the heavily protected cities and things haven’t changed a bit. Women and children are still routinely kidnapped and held for ransom, and raped whilst they wait. Women are still subjected to humiliating and intrusive chastity tests if they look at a man the wrong way, are found alone with a man who is not their husband (including in a taxi, for example), or for the flimsiest of rumours about their fidelity. Those dissenters who make their feelings known subsequently suffer a short and very miserable life at the hands of the tribal chiefs and warlords; all of whom backed international intervention but are now a bit cheesed off at the way things have been going. They are not Taliban but, to ruin a Shakespeare quote, a rose by any other name…
But that is well known across the ‘States, isn’t it?

As for the other bit of ‘crap’ I suppose that didn’t happen because the US military would instantly own up to every bit of sheer stupidity it commits – as opposed to make dark threats and hope it all gets quietly forgotten (think about My Lai, for example). Maybe you are trying to be an apologist for US foreign policy but, honestly, by ranting that someone is wrong because you (and therefore the US government) don’t agree with their view does not make you (and therefore the US government) right. Too many people have been dragged along by Bush and his singular view of world politics; now if he declared that the sky is blue there would be a rush to windows all over the world just to make sure. And the same with his smarmy ‘socialist’ buddy Blair – if he gets back into office at the next election it will be because a/ there is an extremely low voter turn out, and b/ the other options are (heaven forbid!) even worse.

Now, do you believe that a soldier was savaged by a tiger?
It has been officially reported so there is no shame in you admitting that it did take place – unless it is going to be airbrushed out of the history books (a bit like all those US soldiers who decided they would rather stay in the North after the ceasefire in the Korean war).

Too many people all over the world are officially killed (on the orders of, or a blind eye is turned by, governments) and too much of this is apparently done in the name of anti-terrorism; I suppose at least the tiger had an honest motive.

I agree with Anna (Mark9, above). Too many have died.

Flood.

Too Many:( 😉 Anna

Sauron

not sure if this is the information which you didn’t believe:-

20/9/2003 17:37BST Press Association
BAGHDAD TIGER SHOT AFTER BITING U.S. SOLDIER

A soldier shot and killed a tiger at a Baghdad zoo after the animal bit another soldier who had put his arm through its cage to feed it.

Zuhair Abdul-Majeed, a security guard at the zoo, said the soldiers had gone to the zoo on Thursday night after it closed and were drinking beer when the incident occurred.

‘He was drunk,’ Abdul-Majeed said of the bitten soldier.

A fellow soldier shot the tiger three times in the head and killed it, the guard told The Associated Press today.

The US military were unavailable for comment

The zoo reopened in July, three months after Baghdad was captured by the Americans.

It had 1.5 million visitors in 2001, but Saddam Hussein closed it for
renovation last year. It was scheduled to reopen on April 7 with a USD 27 million facelift.

Instead, on that day, American troops were on the outskirts of Baghdad and Iraqi fighters had sacked zookeepers from the park, setting up defensive positions among the cages.

When zoo workers returned a week later, some animals lay dead in their cages, while others had escaped when mortar rounds blasted open the bars.

Some wild animals roamed the park freely, including a bear that mauled and partially ate three civilians, and three lions that were shot to death when they tried to pounce on a contingent of invading American soldiers.

Since then, the surviving animals have been nursed back to health, and more animals have been brought in from a small private zoo and from the private zoos found in the palaces of Saddam’s family.

20/9/2003 20:23BST Press Association
WELFARE GROUP CONDEMNS TIGER SHOOTING

By Sherna Noah, PA News

An animal welfare group today condemned the ‘inexcusable’ behaviour of an
American soldier who shot a tiger in Baghdad Zoo after it bit a colleague who
tried to feed it.

The soldiers were apparently drinking beer at the zoo in Iraq’s capital when
the incident occurred on Thursday night, after it had closed.

A soldier was injured after putting his arm through the cage bars to feed the
rare animal.

Tonight the World Society for the Protection of Animals (WSPA) urged the US
military to investigate.

Spokesman Jonathan Owen said: ‘We are appalled by this report of such an
irresponsible act.

‘You don’t put your hand into a tiger’s cage in Baghdad Zoo or anywhere else
and you don’t go around taking pot shots at zoo animals.’

He added: ‘It is pretty inexcusable to shoot and kill this tiger without any
consultation.

‘But from these reports, it would seem that the American soldier had a
shoot-and-ask-questions-later approach.

‘If there were problems, they should have been taken up with the zoo
management.’

He said the animal was ‘in a no-win situation’.

‘The tiger is one of the ultimate wild predators, it is not a pussycat. You
can’t be surprised if it wants to defend its own territory.

‘These people are not trained with animals and have taken the law into their
own hands with tragic consequences for an animal which is in scarce supply. It
is a great shame that another endangered tiger has been lost.

‘To have soldiers running around and shooting at animals in the zoo in these
sort of circumstances isn’t in anyone’s interest.

‘We would certainly urge the US military authorities to look into this.’

One of the zoo’s security guards, Zuhair Abdul-Majeed, said the soldiers had
gone to the zoo on Thursday night after it closed and were drinking.

‘He was drunk,’ he said of the bitten soldier.

He said the fellow soldier had shot the tiger three times in the head and
killed it.

The US military was unavailable for comment.

Baghdad Zoo reopened in July, three months after the Iraqi capital was
captured by the Americans.

It was scheduled to reopen in April following a 27 million facelift but
American troops were on the outskirts of the city.

When zoo workers returned a week later, some animals lay dead in their cages,
while others had escaped.

Wild animals, including a bear that mauled and partially ate three civilians,
roamed the park freely.

Three lions were shot to death when they tried to pounce on invading American
soldiers.

Surviving animals have since been looked after, and more animals have been
brought in from Saddam’s family palaces.

More than that I cannot comment on, but I am sure you will make your own judgement about the rest anyway.
Hate to think what story the injured soldier was going make about how he got his purple heart…

Originally posted by Zippo
The fact that the U.S is basically a society built by immigrants, doesn’t make it more democratic neither more tolerant.
And the fact that different minorities have their own publications in their own language, doesn’t mean that there is better information.
The question is, how much and what kind of information the great networks and the other media at national level are offering.
If you consider who owns the TV stations and the big publishing (large corporations), then you get an idea about what kind of information you are getting.Censorship does not have to be imposed by the government like in the Soviet Union.
There is the other kind, the so-called “self-sensiorship”.It’s the kind that works in reporter’s minds, making them ask the “right” questions and ignoring other.And, it’s the kind of censorship that excludes news items and subjects, from fear of losing ads and sponsors.And, to come to the point, in the present situation in the U.S., it’s the self-censorship that is imposed out of fear of being called “unpatriotic”.
Now, in Europe the situation is slightly better.First, the Media is not owned by few corporations like in the U.S (not yet, that is) and due to the variety of interests and origins, you get to choose your sources of information.
Not living in the U.S., I do not have the “whole picture”, but if the CNN (even the “leftie” version we get in Europe) CBS and FOX, is anything to go by, I tell you it’s shameful.

Again, with all the information you claim you get, how come most Americans have no idea about what goes on in the Middle East, or earlier in Eastern Europe for example?That, to mention two points that the majority of people ought to care about, since the U.S is heavily involved there.

Regards

Now, based on what that give you all the above opinions? Based on US TV shows “sampling” people to show how clueless they are so you as a foreigner can laugh at them thinking all of us are like that? And who gives you the right on what “ought” to be cared about by certain people…don’t extrapolate your socialistic ideas onto others. It’s shameful to you about American news and we say your news is shameful too…let’s just have a stalemate and keep on going. What’s the point of that? The point is why don’t you “ought” to care and do something about it? No, because your government is just about as sorry as everybody else, including the US, when it comes to certain things needed to be done, so no need to tell others what “ought” to be cared about unless you can demonstrate the willingness to do something about it.

Sauron:

“Plawolf

The only interest you and some others have in this thread is to pick up on some idiot story and then add to it. Sad. “

what, cant handle the truth so u decide to just deny it? its halarious that u can deduce the ‘reason’ im here just from what i’ve posted.

if u have anything to base ur rediculous claims abt me please post them, otherwise keep the BS to urself.

Of course Zippo is ignorant of the fact that the US contains the most group of minorities with the largest communities OUTSIDE of their own country/region. That said, you have so much news outlets with their “facts” to read/hear, the problem isn’t censorship but not enough unbiased truths. Let’s see, now how is it possible (for example, no attempt to flame so just chill…) for the Chinese Central News on American TV criticizing the US and calling Americans all sorts of this and that, and then there are Mexican (lot’s of those), Italian, Japanese, Korean, Brazilian, Agentinian, Indian, Pakistani, Iranian, Saudi, Spanish, etc, etc….hope Zippo get the point. They don’t call this the land of immigrants for nothing, Helsinki is far more homogeneous (synonomous with “NO CLUE ON RACIAL/NATIONALISTIC ISSUES”) than this place will ever be. And, i’ve heard on TV all of what you’ve posted, so no need to preempt by saying “we don’t hear this” because we do and could it possibly that we’ve also hear the other side too?

Zippo

Your claim about US media not reporting events in Iraq is simple minded nonsense. Censorship? Give us a break. You don’t believe that youself unless you believe in fairy tales!

There are as many detailed reports on all aspects of events in Iraq from as many points of view as you could wish for, from both US and foreign reports carried on US new chanels not to mention the news on the “‘ethnic” chanels which are full of non US generated reports from as many sources as you can digest.

Nothing in the so called ‘extracts’ that you list is unknown in the US. Given the biased tone and language in some of the items, I would be more inclined to question the objectivity of the European press if that is a fair sample. Perhaps that is the only type of reporting that gets printed or broadcast in Europe. Looks to me like you are the one being selectively fed only what your left-wing press wants you to hear and that is to bad because you are the one who suffers in the long run.

The wisdom of actions taken and the consequences of the Bush administrations foreign policies in Iraq and elsewhere are debated constantly in the US media on a daily basis as is that of any US administration. It is beyond the capacity of any US administration to control the press in the US.

Regards

Sauron

Plawolf

The only interest you and some others have in this thread is to pick up on some idiot story and then add to it. Sad.

The Observer piece has only one purpose, and that is to denigrate the US. To bad these two sickf**ks couldn’t find some real news to report rather than pander to the tiny minds that get off on other peoples problems.

Sauron

Sauron:

dont know abt the rest, but the tiger incident was very real. and it is also a fact that US soilders reguarly have drunken parties there, without the approval of the zoo keepers, who had no way of stopping them.

im sure that this sort of stupid behavior is an exception and not the norm, but its still pretty bad press to say the least.

when President Bush declared an end to major combat operations

Yup. And like a lot of media with selective memory, he also said in that same speech that the work ahead was dangerous and the job wasn’t over.

Nice little defeatist peace there from the Observer. Here is an near impossible task. Find a Brit newspaper that publishes stories that report the whole story and not all defeatist crap.

Flood

What a load of crap. Surely you could make up something that sounds more believable than that load.

Sauron

Now did I hear it right? Did an American soldier shoot a rare Bengal Tiger, in a zoo, because his mate was STUPID enough to try to feed it by hand through the bars of its cage – so it bit him?
I believe there is the Darwin award for those who die in a hair-brained fashion before they can procreate – and anyone who thinks a tiger in a zoo is just a big pussy cat must qualify! I just hope that there is no more of this kind of stupidity for which a rare, beautiful, and very dangerous animal has to die because some stupid grunt (so named because that is the noise the stupid ones make when they don’t get out of the way of a tank, apparently) doesn’t understand the law of the jungle.

In addition, I met a German photographer recently who had a bad experience with the military to the north of Baghdad. He was with a group chatting with some locals when a convoy of US forces pulled up and an officer jumped out, yelling in an unfathomable (to all concerned, apparently) language and gesticulating at them with a gun. When the photographer stood up to ask if he could be of some assistance he was knocked to the floor, pinned down and cable tied. When he was finally able to tell their interpreter that he spoke perfectly good English and was, in fact, a member of the press they released him and left, making threats about what they would do if he told on them. It was only as they disappeared over the horizon that one of the locals casually broke it to him that the officer had been trying to fire a pistol at him as he was laying on the ground – but thankfully appeared to have forgotten about the safety catch.

Couple this together with the recent shooting of an Italian official’s interpreter and maybe the question should be how many people of all nationalities have been killed, and why.
I am not asking for a body count, maybe just confirmation that each death was for a valid reason – and in the case of the German photographer I would not class standing up to offer help as a viable reason to die. No wonder the US government wants its troops to be immune from subsequent prosecution before they’ll let them work for the United Nations…

Flood.

Any many died ? Too many for sure 🙁

lets not forget all the attacks that only result in injuries or no castalies.

i regually hear on skynews abt how US forces come under around a dosen attacks a day. great job on their part for not taking that many casaulties (compared to the number of attacks), however it will be VERY demoralising and tireing to have to keep fully focused from the start of ur shift right to the end. it gets given worse if ppl take pop shots at u every now and then.

Zippo is not incorrect on those statistics Vortex- similar information was published by the Washington Post.

It can be demoralizing if 1 or 2 soldiers get killed everyday for several years and they never catch the true perpetrators.

One death is too many

A War kills soldier is a common sense. Compare with Vietnamese war, the casualties is much lower. 1 or 2 a week cannot lower the morality of soldier. As long as white house get money from congress, it can sustain as long as it need.