How many more????

Home Terroism..

When are we going too wake up and face reality. Britain is no longer an imperialist power, we can’t go around the world as if we own it. We no longer have a great Navy or Air Force, we are in danger of becoming the laughing stock of the world. In my opinion we should withdraw our troops from Afghanistan and Iraq. Even Africans don’t want us interfering with their affairs. We need too fight terroism at home not abroad.
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Yes it’s a bl**dy disgrace, but then it’s not the politicians lives that are endangered by not having it.

Steve.

they never are…………

its often been said that if they had to work for a day in either a casualty station or a burial detail they would never let another war occur again..

Doubt it would work with the current crew in America and wannabe Yanks over here…..

Just seen an item on CH4 news that the C130’s still havent been fitted with Explosion suppressants(?) apparently standard fit on USAF Hercs?

Only one kitted out so far???

How many more indeed!!!!

Probably part of the so called “defence cuts” that we had not that long ago. Yeah right, cutting the defence of our aircrews more like!!!!!

Mark.

Yes it’s a bl**dy disgrace, but then it’s not the politicians lives that are endangered by not having it.

Steve.

C130’s still dangerous?

Just seen an item on CH4 news that the C130’s still havent been fitted with Explosion suppressants(?) apparently standard fit on USAF Hercs?

Only one kitted out so far???

How many more indeed!!!!

Hi Hurrifan,

I think whether something like this is a victory,defeat or draw depends upon ones’s viewpoint. Many people see Dunkirk as a ‘victory’, which in a way it was, but it was also the final act of a comprehensive defeat.

Certainly the Republicans got their Republic (victory?), but not for the whole of Ireland (partial defeat?), and the British government/empire managed to save face by retaining Ulster (partial victory?), and in doing so might well have saved Eire from an even worse civil war following independence (serendipity?).

Once again how we interpret this ballance between victory,defeat and draw boils down to our perspective. Perhaps the real art of the good historian to to stop being English/Irish/European/Black/Martian and find impartiality; something I for one find extremely difficult.

Steve.

It’s always worth remembering that throughout the recent troubles politicians, media and especially the military conveniently ‘forgot’ that Irish republicans (including the IRA) had already defeated us British in the early 1920’s.

Steve.

Steve,

think it has to be said that it was at best a draw..Michael Collins who played a major part in the negotiations is said to have claimed that Lloyd George promised all out war if the Treaty was rejected….Eire was after all to remain within the British empire….

i think it was a British public tired after the slaughter of 14/18 who couldnt face more deaths …and an Irish public who were scared of what might have happened…

and as I type I see that Lt.Col.Clancy a veteran of the War of Independance and the civil war that followed has died today at age 105…RIP

It’s always worth remembering that throughout the recent troubles politicians, media and especially the military conveniently ‘forgot’ that Irish republicans (including the IRA) had already defeated us British in the early 1920’s.

Steve.

Don’t you believe it! The British security services made life so difficult for the PIRA, that Adam’s and Co decided to got for the peace option without reuniting the Island as they had discovered that they were not going to beat the British (and they told the British that! Help us stop the war, because we cannot win it). The British knew that they were never going to beat the PIRA and were looking for a way-out without the government having to commit political suicide). Hence it ended in a Draw, with some major concessions given to Adam’s and Co about the Republic’s involvement in the North and Prisoner releases (Those guys are however out on Licence. Break the law and they are banged up for the rest of their sentences). Only pity is that the Orange Nutters (who started the problems in 1968) and the more extreme Republicans have not yet woken up to the fact that the troubles are over.

Anyway as a mate of mine told me, when he was in Dublin doing a job, he got friendly with loads of Dubliners and a lot of them told him in that in the eyes of a lot of the people in the south, the UK is welcome to keep the North, as they have to pay the money to keep the place afloat, money that would have to come out of the south’s coffers should Ireland be reunited.

I doubt if anyone ever thought that the IRA could defeat the British Army much in the same way that the NVA could never have defeated the American armed forces in a stand up war…the aim would appear to have been to make the war so unpopular at home to force a government decision to withdraw.

Yes there was a ” truce ” as such and now it looks like a complete end of ” hostilities “. Hopefully the politics have taken over from the Armalite for ever, though i find it hard to trust someone who stuck a gun in my face !!!….as you say it is mostly the extremists who are causing problems .

but the point is their ” belief ” of a 32 county Republic remains but as a political aspiration rather than a military objective.

You might be right about the Dubliners…a lot of them head north for cheap booze , food, electrical gear etc on a regular basis…Sainsburys have that much business from the south that their trollies take both stg and Euro !!!!!! 😀

There is a real issue in Afghanistan in that many NATO countries are either refusing to honour their committments, or only doing so on condition their troops won’t be expected to fight. Now if countries want to stay out of the war fair enough, but say so, the hypocrisy of supporting it whilst making sure they stay out of it is what i think stinks. Also raises the question over what worth NATO has when it’s members won’t back up their empty rhetoric with action. As things are American, British, Australian, Canadian and Dutch troops are doing the dirty work whilst other countries either won’t send resources they offered or their troops are sitting in quiet areas where there is no chance of a fight.

you cant defeat a belief…the British tried it in Northern Ireland

Don’t you believe it! The British security services made life so difficult for the PIRA, that Adam’s and Co decided to got for the peace option without reuniting the Island as they had discovered that they were not going to beat the British (and they told the British that! Help us stop the war, because we cannot win it). The British knew that they were never going to beat the PIRA and were looking for a way-out without the government having to commit political suicide). Hence it ended in a Draw, with some major concessions given to Adam’s and Co about the Republic’s involvement in the North and Prisoner releases (Those guys are however out on Licence. Break the law and they are banged up for the rest of their sentences). Only pity is that the Orange Nutters (who started the problems in 1968) and the more extreme Republicans have not yet woken up to the fact that the troubles are over.

Anyway as a mate of mine told me, when he was in Dublin doing a job, he got friendly with loads of Dubliners and a lot of them told him in that in the eyes of a lot of the people in the south, the UK is welcome to keep the North, as they have to pay the money to keep the place afloat, money that would have to come out of the south’s coffers should Ireland be reunited.

” do onto others as you would have them do onto you” ? doesnt always work…

we need to monitor situations in some volatile countries were human rights are questionable.but we dont need the kind of responses that America in its self appointed role as the world’s policeman has used..We dont need the kind of discriminatory morals that their Administrations have displayed over the years.

and to be frank i would rather not die at all ….and definitely not for a questionable War at the behest of a questionable American president and a questionable British PM.

Hole in one!!!!!!! 😀 😀 😀 Mark 😀

Pandoras Box.

You can put as many men in Afghanistan as you like, and you may win the Battle in the short term. However experience in Vietnam has shown that this dosn’t mean you’ll win. Likewise Iraq is the same situation, a long drawn out War between two opposing ideoligys. Equally the sheer cost in terms of lives and tax payers money for what, so that Democracy can be spread too those parts of the World that don’t want it. The opposing ideoligy is surely hell bent on destroying us and our way of life. In my opinion the whole thing is a Pandoras box , with all manner of nasties waiting too destroy us. I wish I could be less pessimistic about our future. but it dosn’t look good. I think we should be looking at the real threat closer too Home, and dealing with that in a more effective way. Fat chance of that I suspect.
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I think that we ( entire coalition) needs to take off the veil and look it more seriously , there are less NATO troops in afganistan then in N ireland and look at the situaiton !! the US needs to put more men on the ground , accelerate operation Medusa , go on the attack and kill as many as they can , i think then we’d be in buisness . As far as iraq is concerned it is a big mess , some is the govts fault while the other is the result of circumsthanses , there we just have to wait it out , protect our troops and then hope that iraqi domestic capability rises to a point when 1 on 1 substitution is ok . I reckon it would take them atleast 5-6 years to get a competant security force in there that is capable of dealing with the threat.

Here’s a Straw – Suck it up

Here is a link to a Canadian in Afghanistan

http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_sanders/20060901.html

It is long but well worth the read.

I would – like most – be most appreciative of the fact that there was no more wars to be fought. In general they are a huge waste of time, energy, and most importantly – human life. The misery of war has been with us it seems like forever – and if we could figure out a way to end it all so that we can all live in peace that would probably be mans’ (collective humanity) greatest victory. Until that happens we need to continue the protest against the act of warfare and learn to live with a very imperfect world. :dev2:

Just my $0.02 worth.

No axe to grind here – open discussion is what is really best. 🙂

So now we know that the Taliban are good fighters, probably better than ours. It just shows what can happen if you underestimate your foe. It would seem time is rapidly running out, as Winter is approaching, the Taliban will retreat too the Mountains. In my opinion, the Taliban can’t be destroyed, because there will always be others too take the place of those killed. Now it’s time for common sense too come into play, and put an end too this no win situation. I hope I’m proved wrong, but things don’t look good. This game of Chess is heading for a stalemate.
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Better? maybe different.. they dont fight by the rules ! The Uk forces are understrength and not properly equipped for this kind of war.

and you are right ..you cant defeat a belief…the British tried it in Northern Ireland , Eden and Afganistan ..many years ago!

The Germans tried it in France,Norway, The Netherlands etc etc etc in WW2 withour success and look what they tried to solve the ” problem” !

and thats not mentioning Vietnam…

When will governments learn????

Given the disparity of the size of the forces, I don’t think so. :rolleyes:

The presence of UK forces gives the US the idea that they are the of a Crusading force for good!!

You’re sounding like Charles Lindbergh and the “America First’ campaign that wanted the US to stay out of WWII. A lot of Americans made the same arguments before the US entered WWI and II.

surely america’s foreign policy is ” America first ” anyway? its just that it ******s up the rest of the world while iits doing it.

Assuming we did win the War against the Taliban, it wont stop there. Other countries are gearing up against the Western World. The only answer too all this is too destroy every adversary, problem is this will lead too World War Three.
I think we have bitten of more than we can chew.
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damn right…..

you can never defeat a way of thinking or a belief….unless you wnat to wipe out entire populations.

We have been set on a path that may spell the end of the Civilisied world as we know it.

I genuinely didn’t know if there were any other troops in Afganistan. I feel sorry for the poor beggars doing peace keeping though. I’d rather be killed in combat than be killed in “peace-time”.

The way I look at these things is that “I have no intorest in occupying foreign countries, just as long as they don’t try to occupy mine”.

I have no doubt that the Taliban feel the same.

” do onto others as you would have them do onto you” ? doesnt always work…

we need to monitor situations in some volatile countries were human rights are questionable.but we dont need the kind of responses that America in its self appointed role as the world’s policeman has used..We dont need the kind of discriminatory morals that their Administrations have displayed over the years.

and to be frank i would rather not die at all ….and definitely not for a questionable War at the behest of a questionable American president and a questionable British PM.

SpitFire Pilot

For your information.

32 Canadians have been killed in this action.
2300 still remain on “Peace Keeping” Duty.

I was talking to a very experienced “OLD SCHOOL” RCAF pilot today and this very subject came up – His views were very pointed and concise in regards to losses during a conflict – we talked about “Friendly Fire – which isn’t”, mistakes made during the heat of conflict, and most importantly that those who “volunteer” – we have no draft in Canada – do so with the intentions of protecting our way of life -“Democracy”.

In addition his comments to me about the fact that all that stands between those who wish to do evil towards us and ourselves is a group of men and women tasked with the most unpleasant of all occupations.

Any loss of life is too much – but is the nature of the task at hand that all risks cannot be mitigated – people get killed on a daily basis – by cars, sting rays, and by aircraft accidents as well as during the conflicts of war operations. The one great mystery of life is that we never know the exact timing of our demise – perhaps that is just as well as it would probably lead us to do some very interesting things.

My condolences go out to the families and friends of everyone killed in action – and I pay my respects in many different ways including on November 11. I have never “Had” to go to war – my Father, Uncles, Great Grandfathers etc. sacrificed and made that a possibility – Some of them did not come back home at the end of the conflict – but that does not mean that we don’t still think of them.

And always remember – sometimes there are more in the fight than just those getting front page news!!

I genuinely didn’t know if there were any other troops in Afganistan. I feel sorry for the poor beggars doing peace keeping though. I’d rather be killed in combat than be killed in “peace-time”.

The way I look at these things is that “I have no intorest in occupying foreign countries, just as long as they don’t try to occupy mine”.

I have no doubt that the Taliban feel the same.