HP Victor XL161 incident in Australia

You can also share some Valiant, Victor & Vulcan memories here tomorrow! 😉

If you really want to get nostalgic with the sound of 4 x Conways setting off the car alarms, come and see XM715 at Bruntingthorpe on Sunday 25th May 2014: http://www.bruntingthorpeaviation.com/open-days/ and www.victorxm715.co.uk
There will be many more aircraft making a noise too.

Hello all,
I worked on ‘161 in the sheds at El Adam with grass ’78 to ’82. 30 odd years later, I’ve just put the Artouste from ‘161 into XM715 !! Who would have believed it!

“El Adim with grass” –lol !! Forgot all about that expression. Been there too. Glad to see some bits still left from Xl-161 (and working too) Good on yer 125 Brat. Well at least 2 early Victor 2 Nose sections are still with us, (Xl-160 and Xl-164 I think ) and those Cut off Control Yokes have to be around somewhere.

Bill T.

And Roland Beamont and Jimmy Dell did not know what they were talking about re TSR2s perfomance, and the dogs breakfast re-engineering of the Phantoms with speys (£££££££££S)
was a great deal for the Taxpayer (LOL)

Bit controversial there Orion! Not heard that opinion before.

Blue Steel was obsolete before it was flown and TSR2 was the wrong aeroplane for the RAF. The politicians got it right, and, not for the first time post WW2, the RAF and the industry got it all wrong. The taxpayer gained.

Regards

Hello all,
I worked on ‘161 in the sheds at El Adam with grass ’78 to ’82. 30 odd years later, I’ve just put the Artouste from ‘161 into XM715 !! Who would have believed it!

Don’t be too hard on the politicians. they all have to save money, and their skins.
Healey may have scrubbed some things but Duncan Sandys did just as good a job for the other mob. Better vote UKIP.
Just wondering what is going to happen now

Victor Spin re-visited !!!

QUOTE=Trenchardbrat;1603915]Robert
you should look at the dates of that incident as the Two Pointer aircraft were still in use and able to carry an engine in its Bomb bay . The Flap was suspended from the Pannier adaptor as one method of moving it to RAF Goose Bay on the other hand it probably went by Hercules from Lyneham with a Team to repair the aircraft .You obviously do knot know the two pointers. As to the Control Colum Centres I have two of them from two Mk 1 Aircraft XA932 and XH619 In addition a Control Colum From XA932. My K2 XL512 which I collected from Woodfod had blanks fitted in that place when delivered to Marham in 1976

The K2 was only allowed to fly without a HDU fitted to Major Servicings and Return and on dispoal in 1993[/QUOTE]

———————————————————————-

Hi Folks,
Nice to see the interest here, ( Trenchard Brat–Low-and-Slow —-Rob H. —-Mad Jock–,etc. ) didn’t realise it’s been 2+ years since thread started.

So here’s a few more thoughts:-

Also didn’t realise that 2 Victors were especially rigged to accomodate big loads in Bomb Bay, —-Trenchard B. —–do you know what their numbers were ?

The Goose Bay Victor Flap was definately brought in a Victor, but not being a number cruncher myself, I took little notice of that.

I can well imagine the panic that the Falklands War caused the RAF at St. Athan, —- I was out of RAF by then and working for Airworks in Oman and although on RAF reserve list, was told the Oman contract was too important to UK to take engineers away, so I was never recalled ( Phew !!! ) never got to hear about the preparations side till years later either. I’d just left RAF Shawbury ( Marshalls on Chipmunk Majors ) to head out to Oman in Oct. 81 and learnt later that Harriers were flown in there ( Shawbury ) and modified to take Sidewinders, virtually all work stopped so this big task could be done by the Marshalls Work Force. It was achieved by them working around the clock, ( so I was told ). Bet you could get a great thread going about the Aircraft preparations for the Falklands War Jock.

However, getting back to XL-161, —–somewhere out there on a Living Room wall or squirrel’d away has to be 2 Control Yokes from XL-161, Whether anything else is still around, –who knows ? I guess someone in here will.

And at the time of the “Spin” by XL-161, the rear crew members seats and movable Engineers seat in between and just behind Pilots were std seats, the special rotatable ones with the tipping and bag to get occupants out in emergency situation had arrived at Edinburgh Field in 64, but were a modification fit and the powers that be deemed the Blue Steel Trials more important, so they were never fitted,( complicated by the news of the Trials cancellation as well ). I’ve got some more pics. to scan in, just have to find em first and will post accordingly.

Once the manufacturers ,reps, teams and so on finished at 4 JSTU, the RAF took over the trials and Flt. Lt. Alec Hollingsworth was the main Pilot for XL-161, like all these professional men of this period, he was a great man, really helpful and would listen to everyone. I got on really well with him and he fixed me up up with a ride in 161 on a small flt. test, this would be in the Engineers seat, ( marvellous, could not believe my luck–better anyday than flying in the black bowels of a Vulcan —–lol ) was just collecting my flying kit for the event when 161 went U/S, so that was end of that, no ride and no opportunity after that either, but I did get a ride in back seat of one of the Aussie Meteor T7’s that came in for heavy Servicings by RAAF in their Main Hanger. Enjoyed that carrying out test dives on Edinburgh Field Tech Area for Gun Camera Mods.

Hey Trenchard Brat !!! What Entry of Halton Apprentices were you, I was 88th. 1 then 2 Wing. ( better than having to do National Service in Army-only, just scraped in via entrance exams, but that was enough )

It would be nice to keep this thread going, for sure, time goes on and we forget, so its good to record all.

Bill T.

Yep, the Victors were all different. Exchanging panels with other a/c was not done. Even fitting the spectacles (jetpipe fairings) could involve a “walk around the pan” to fit all the Dzus fasteners. There were countless lines in the spares book stating “applicable to……. only”
Discussions with Woodford about these were technical diversions tended to include the sentence “oh yes, we know about that”.

Did anyone here ever work majors at Saints on Victors? I was seconded from Vulcan majors to Victors during the Falklands War although it was recommended that we didn’t get too comfortable in case we were needed in a hurry to restore the Vulcans on the scrap line. As events showed they weren’t needed.

I found the Victor a very strange machine- never met an aircraft before where each panel seemed to have been made for a specific aircraft and you had order a load of spares to get one to fit the hole- and three tailplanes to get one that aligned with the top mounts. Definitely an experience to add to the memory banks.

It was also during this fracas that the civvies employed on Victor majors decided to have a bit of a sit in- before you jump up and down they had good reason. As Victors had gone onto 24 hour manning the civvie reps had negotiated appropriate remuneration for them re-arranging their lives, however the Finance people had forgotten to pay them and the union rep had told them to sit in the crewroom until it was sorted out. Rumour control later said that senior station management had been informed and the rockets had been dispensed in the right direction.

Great fun to see a civvie shiny looking all bedraggled coming into pay the civvies at some ungodly hour in the morning- after they had been paid the lads went back to work with a will and the jet was despatched on time to return to Marham for a Corporate prep. Overall they were a good bunch of blokes who taught me some stuff I didn’t know.

Cheers
Mad Jock

You obviously do knot know the two pointers.

The K2 was only allowed to fly without a HDU fitted to Major Servicings and Return and on dispoal in 1993

No I was a K2 man. I had a look around a couple of K1’s they were totally different fish.
Engines, wings, tanks, electrical systems, APU, an awful lot was different.
Remember 512 well though, used to be called 51/2.

Got rno eal reason (or expertise) to add to this post, only to say imho its one of the most interesting threads in recent time on the site and has certainly added to my knowledge of the era.

Thankyou and please keep it going, its why I subscribed to the forum in the first place!

Transporting a Flap

Hi Bill, no I’ve never heard that one although I would have loved to have seen how the hell they got the flap in the bombbay. They must have removed the HDU.
Having worked in the hangers for so long I got to see all the airframes and had an intimate knowledge of their shall we say, eccentricities.
Here’s a photo to start things off.

Robert
you should look at the dates of that incident as the Two Pointer aircraft were still in use and able to carry an engine in its Bomb bay . The Flap was suspended from the Pannier adaptor as one method of moving it to RAF Goose Bay on the other hand it probably went by Hercules from Lyneham with a Team to repair the aircraft .You obviously do knot know the two pointers. As to the Control Colum Centres I have two of them from two Mk 1 Aircraft XA932 and XH619 In addition a Control Colum From XA932. My K2 XL512 which I collected from Woodfod had blanks fitted in that place when delivered to Marham in 1976

The K2 was only allowed to fly without a HDU fitted to Major Servicings and Return and on dispoal in 1993

XL161 Wrinkles

I worked on the K2’s between ’82-’87 I never saw any wrinkles on 161, can’t remember reading anything in the limitations log either.

Robert you would never have seen the supposed wrinkles in the skin of XL161 as she went back to HP after the Blue Steel trials and was converted to a B(SR)2 . The K2 aircraft had new inner wing skins any way.

Robert – was that badge on the Victor? – whereabouts??

Roger Smith.

Indeed, they were fitted in the yolk dead centre. All those on the a/c were removed by parting aircrew. The one I have is brand new from stock.

Victor XL-161.In Edinburgh Field,Adelaide,Sth.Assie. 1964.

Hi Jon, 😀 Close Roger,— I’m the small chap standing one foot on his shoulder, ( today–same height-just 44 years older ) This is most of the Victor Servicing Team on XL-161 for 1964. Us Airframes “riggers” on left and centre of pic. pic and elect-Arm Inst-tradesmen etc. to right. The chap on the Far right was Ch/Tech Johnny Walker, He was the designated Crew Chief Proper for XL-161, A good bloke to work for, in fact they were all excellent folks.

The Guy sitting is ( or was at that time ) Just off Crew Chiefing Victors, Ch/Tech “Dinger” Bell, who I met again at Goose Bay and same with Eric Garden on my right.

Such was the importance of keeping this Aircraft in the air for these Blue Steel trials, that thinking about it,– we actually had 2 ex-Crew Chiefs and John on the team, ” Doughy ” Baker, used to chase me up for jobs and regularly give the lads an ear-bashing, but like the others, you had deep respect for these people, something that seems to be a missing ingredient from our social structures today. He missed this pic. line -up.

If you look more closely at 161, you can just make out ( right of pic.) the back edge of the Blue Steel bomb bay fairings, — because the Victor was so close to the ground, one side of the bomb bay farings were all removed, ( Port ) and the Blue Steel Missile was slid in from the port side on a special low trolley and winched up into position,fitted,checks done and fairings put back on. This happened every time these beasts were loaded. Never a problem unloading them cos they wern’t there when she came back from firing up at Woomera/Maralinga.

At that time, these Victors were fitted with retractable nose-flaps on the front outer port and stbd. mainplanes. Every morning and on Turn -rounds we had to drop access panels to charge up Hyd. accumulators for this system with nitrogen. The panels were held in their rear locations by 2 pip pins per panel,as well as normal fasteners and you had to put the pip pin clip on the end of your “G.S.” Screwdriver, line it all up and push in, I found it a real pain in the you know what,– as being a S****A**** ! The guys would delight in watching me struggle. Once the Victors were converted to Tankers in late 60’s this all passed into history, as from then on, Victors had fixed nose flaps.

Hey Robert, That very nice Badge looks to me like the one that was fixed to the Victor Pilots Control Yokes centres, a nice reminder.

Going back to the Goose Bay Victor “Flap-Crew-In” Incident, from what I remember looking into the Bomb Bay of the Victor that arrived with the new flap, was that it was empty of everything Robert, no HDU (Hose Drum Unit ) and the flap iself was fited into a wooden space frame, like I said, it was a work of art how the riggers at Marham got the thing in there. One thing I did like about the Victor from a riggers point of view was that the 2 Hydraulic systems were fitted with “Stop Cocks” points in the Main part of System and these points were mounted down the inside walls of the bomb bay, nice and accessible, so any internal leaks in the systems could very quickly be located to a particular service. Handley Page were good like that. (I know, A quality British Company gone to the wall )

Thats one pic. in,—:) I do have some more,which I’ll put in soon as I can.

If you go into “Google Earth” and fly over to Edinburgh Field Airfield,Nr. the town of Elizabeth, nth. of Adelaide. You can see the Centre big hanger where we operated from. There are 5 Hangers there now and were 3 back in 1964.

The V-bombers, once loaded with Blue Steel were towed down to Southern end of Airfield to a special pan on its own iust off end of Peri. track. This Pan was surrounded by it’s own massive wire hawser Chain mail link type of fence that was about 12 ft high. I cannot make out where the Pan used to be for it was dismantled many years ago, ( slueths-step fwd. )

The V-Bombers were backed into here and this is where the final preparation for flight was carried out on the Blue Steel Missile and where the missiles where filled with Twin mix fuels of kerosene and HTP. ( High Test Peroxide ). The place was known as “The Pens” and “Submarine Pens”, This highly dangerous toxic brew was like something left over from the German WW2 Rocket Planes Experiments, ( You know T-stoff and D-stoff I think they were called ) Which is why the fence was there —to contain an explosion, because if that happened, several tons of kerosene and aluminium sitting above the missile would help to make a pyro technic show that would make your eyes water.

When mixed, these 2 fuels gave the combustion to operate the missile and several times the Blue Steels went into venting off mode whilst the whole rig was in “the Pens”. It happened to me and a Welsh Elect Sgt. over one lunch time, we were on standbye, to look after XL-161 and missile while everyone else went off for lunch, including the Fire crew and Tender, before an afternoon Launch. The Kerosene started venting out of ( Rear, I think -vent)

So I grabbed a Bass broom and kept sweeping at it, but the pool got bigger.
Another ” Crack” noise and the HTP Vent Valve at front end blew and out pumped HTP, Memerised ,we watched these 2 pools of liquid grow in size till panic took over, Taff grabbed another broom and went flat out at sweeping this HTP away( It wrecked his boots ) It hissed and cracked as it went down cracks in concrete, and we started to lose the battle, Taff downed his broom and legged it for the Emergency telephone. Uproar ensued, Fire engines -Land Rovers-Ambulances swept into the Pen while we were still giving it maximum welly on the brooms. They got it under control and me and Taff dunked our lower ends into 2 of the Water barrels around edge of pan for such an occasion. That HTP will burn you up something akin to an acid burn, but we were OK. ( Imagine if Health and Safety were presented with this today:eek: ) After a C/plete Washdown and re-check of all Aircraft and Missile systems, the Crew arrived, got on -board and away XL-161 went with missile out onto end of Peri track onto main runaway and away, everything worked OK. Well– when I say OK, at least the beast left the Aircraft, because from most of the 16mm “rushes” (films ) we were all allowed to watch of ea. firing, most of the these were dismal affairs, with the missile wandering all over the place and having to be remotely blown up. I know there was a lot of trouble with The Elliot Brothers Guidance systems on board, but these were early days for this sort of technology and you couldn’t expect much else. There was tremendous effort poured into all this on the Blue Steel by the civillian Technicians of WRE, ( Weapons Research Establishment ) of Salsibury, nr. the Airfield.

Still, this is all academic now, No V-Bombers-No Blue Steel and No more UK research out in Aussei -Woomera shut in late 70’s and Edinburgh Field is now home to the Royal Australian Air Force planes. More pics. soon

Bill T.

Here’s a group of us with XL161. Guess which is me!
Bill T
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I know 😉

Jon

Hi Bill – and interest of 420 other people viewing this thread.

Thanks for the further memories – could’ve been nasty if the nitrogen bottle had exploded!
Had a quick look at Tony Cunnane’s site and will go back to it.
Take a stab at the photo and wild guess you’re the one sitting in front?

Robert – was that badge on the Victor? – whereabouts??

Roger Smith.

XL161 @ Edinburgh field 1964

Here’s a group of us with XL161. Guess which is me!
Bill T
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