HS Gnat T.Mk.1 colour schemes

Fascinating. Looking at the photo I mentioned (it’s an Adrian Balch collection image) it does appear to be grey rather than weathered metal. Its of XM706 and taken in 1970.

The characteristics of dayglo do mean for a lot of variation, not just because of film, lighting or fade, but also thickness of the paint, the sort of undercoat used and so on. It is good to have the use of various shades confirmed.

There are several colour photos of Gnats in operational service in Light Aircraft Grey and Dayglo (Including one such aircraft flying as ‘Red One’) – in B+W, the difference between aluminium and LAG is difficult to spot (which is not surprising when you consider why LAG was chosen)

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/8/8/1/0216188.jpg

What’s interesting in that shot is how orange the dayglo is, compared to the shot of XS105 Pagen posted – compare to the Signal Red on the other Gnats and the JP in the background of XS105. Also, the Scotchcal tape on the (LAG) Provost – I have a sample of that, and the colour is reproduced accurately there.

Many late colour photos show the dayglo as that reddish shade, but here is a comment from another board:

Regarding the shades of dayglo, I took a colour slide of XP530 at Little Rissington in early April 1963 when it was about a week old; it was so new they hadn’t got round to applying the CFS badge on the nose. Perhaps of more interest is a clear difference between the darker reddy shade of dayglo on this production T.1 aircraft and that on pre-production T.185D, XM704, the tailfin of which can be seen behind it. Also of note is that serial numbers were painted directly onto the dayglo paint on the rear fuselage of production Gnats whereas it was applied within a silver box on the pre-production machines, at least until their first repaint.

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Thanks for the input everyone ,I am busy with work at moment hope to catch up later. Pagen 01 note the dayglo is redder with the Light Aircraft Grey finish.

They might be right WP, I have just found a pic taken by a friend on Air Britain, of a LAG and dayglo Gnat at Abingdon 1968, http://www.abpic.co.uk/popup.php?q=1165746

As for the dayglo ‘tones’ issue, the problem is that they can appear different (ie redder) with ambient lighting conditions and film used – this being an issue in the ‘other thread!
That’s not to say that different tones were not applied of course.

There was a recent edition of jets monthly which had some detail on colour schemes. Essentially theprototype had the yellow trainer bands, first preproduction aircaft with cfs were natural aluminium/dayglo orange, production aircraft delivered in natural aluminium and a redder shade of orange dayglo(!) then grey/ dayglo, then red / white with grey wings and finally red/white with red/white wings. The change from the dayglo scheme was largely due to the fading problems with dayglo and was from 1968 on. The change from grey wings to red was on “safety grounds” (their quote marks, but no explanation what those grounds were)

It’s a funny old world. All that effort, only to find out years later that black was the most conspicuous colour!

I am not 100% convinced gray and dayglo was used operationally. The jets monthly article does have an image so captioned, showing a gnat with very ragged dayglo and appearing to be grey rather than natural – but given the state of the rest of the airfame it could also be weathered metal or just a s’not taken on a murky day…..

To be continued…..

Some of the pre-production batch were initially in these colours, but the Gnat T.1 entered service in the silver and Dayglo scheme.

Thanks DD, that must be what I was thinking of, I was probably confused by the preserved Gnat flying in those markings! Worth noting that you need to modify and shorten the nose if you want to model those.

then grey/ dayglo,

Did they have that scheme operationaly? I thought it was just the FAA that used LAG and dayglo?
I have seen pics of retired Gnats used as instructional a/fs in that scheme though it seems.

As soon as dayglo gets involved it’s never straight forward!

There was a recent edition of jets monthly which had some detail on colour schemes. Essentially theprototype had the yellow trainer bands, first preproduction aircaft with cfs were natural aluminium/dayglo orange, production aircraft delivered in natural aluminium and a redder shade of orange dayglo(!) then grey/ dayglo, then red / white with grey wings and finally red/white with red/white wings. The change from the dayglo scheme was largely due to the fading problems with dayglo and was from 1968 on. The change from grey wings to red was on “safety grounds” (their quote marks, but no explanation what those grounds were)

I can’t find a ref number either, I wonder if was because the fluorescent colour was ‘built up’ from different undercoats and successive final coats to achieve the shade?

I suspect more likely because they were proprietary shades anyway.

[QUOTE=pagen01;1862292]My understanding is,

Gnats entered service in the overall silver with golden yellow (BS381/356) training bands around the rear fuselage and inner wings (almost at the roots), possibly only a few aircraft apeared in this scheme.

Some of the pre-production batch were initially in these colours, but the Gnat T.1 entered service in the silver and Dayglo scheme.

DD

We’ve recently been poking about with Bluebird’s tail fin, which of course came from prototype Gnat T.1 XM691, and have found the (very bright!) orange paint still under the fairings that capped the top of the truncated fin/covered the rudder aperture.

I can’t find a ref number either, I wonder if was because the fluorescent colour was ‘built up’ from different undercoats and successive final coats to achieve the shade?

Some paint specs can be found in the links on this post http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1735514&postcount=43 🙂

Dave,

Would like to know the BS number for the Flourescent Red Orange colour ?

It didn’t have one – none of the flourescent colours ( e.g. Signal Green, Saturn Yellow) had BS references.

Sorry folks but I almost forgot this thread http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=108391 😀

My understanding is this,

Gnats entered service in the overall silver with Golden Yellow (BS381/356) training bands around the rear fuselage and inner wings (almost at the roots), possibly only a few aircraft apeared in this scheme.

Went to, silver with fluorescent red/orange paint applied to the nose, tail, and outer wings & tanks.

Then to, fuselage, fuel tanks and tailplane finished in Signal Red (BS381C/537), fuselage upper sides (not inc the dorsal spine) & fin/rudder in white, wings top and undersides finished in Light Aircraft Grey (BS381C/627).
This scheme modified to, tanks, wing, and tailplane top sides finished in Signal Red with LAG under surfaces only, and a white stripe applied over each top side mid wing position above the drop tanks.

This comes from the RAFs painting AP of 1972,
“However, R.A.F. aircraft are being repainted with high gloss polyurethane finishes and signal red polyurethane paint intstead of Scotchcal tape or fluorescent paint. It will be some time before the latter two materials are completely superceded.”

Which suggests that, that was the era that the scheme went from silver/dayglo to red/white/grey, the aircraft gradually being refinished as they went through servicing, ie not all in one go, from the late 1960s.

Worth noting that the Airfix Gnat is a completely new tool, can’t wait to pick one up!:)

Possibly some relevant information in here http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=113079&highlight=CFS

Dave,
Thank you for a very factual detailed account warrants more investigation. The new polyurethane paints came in mid sixties and gave a more weatherproof ,durable finish. Brooklands Aviation at Little Staughton had Westgate hangar converted to control spraying humidity and heat,for Varsity resprays. The polyurethane gave a smell liked cooked bacon .
Would like to know the BS number for the Flourescent Red Orange colour ?

The changes occured due to the change in composition of the paints used by the RAF. They went to a polyurethane based paint in 1966 – at that time, it was not possible to make an ‘aluminium’ paint in polyurethane, so Light Aircraft Grey was a dopted (based on a colour in BS2660) as being the nearest equivalent shade (in terms of light reflectivity etc) as Aluminium/High Speed Silver.*

I’ve not yet been able to tie down as to whether this change of paint types was also responsible for the change in dayglo hue, but it is a possible hypotheisis. Post 1966, the official colour was Fluorescent Red Orange (Or Red Orange fluorescent in some publications) – it would be interesting to see an AP from beofre then to see how the colour is referred to.

The new Red/White/Grey scheme seems to have first appeared on Gnats in 1969, although it appeared much earlier on other types – the Dominie, for example, entered service with it in 1966 (The first couple were delivered in HSS/Dayglo). One point to note on that scheme on Gnats is that the initial scheme differed as the whole wing was Light Aircraft Grey.

*As an aside, it’s interesting to note that FAA Gannnet T5s seemed to remain in overall aluminium right up until the last was withdrawn in the 70s, whilst other FAA trainers adopted Light Aircraft Grey.

Bill many thanks for the reply yes I think the red/white finish happened about 1969.