Gents
I wonder what the future holds for the Hunter F-2 (WN904) which guards the gate at Waterbeach Cambs, after the recent announcement that the former RAF base is to close soon.
I seam to remember the jet was loaned to the base by the IWM, so I hope they reclaim the jet and give it a good home. :rolleyes:
Freebird
By: pagen01 - 8th March 2012 at 13:14
Nothing wrong with the engine.
Didn’t the Sapphire suffer blade rubbing in some conditions, also under the impression that the Sapphire was realised early on that it wasn’t as ‘developable’ as the Avon would be – and clearly was in the 200/300?
The Sapphire (ASX, inherited from Metrovick F.9) did feature an annular combustion chamber from the start, which was a more modern layout, and which the Avon switched to from the 200 series, and ASM did use a superior fuel atomiser design in its turbojets.
Have also seen it written that the Rolls Royce obtained use from ASM for their superior compressor design.
Interesting that the Americans choose the Sapphire to develop as the J-65 though, (inc fitment in their Canberra versions), rather than the Avon.
Good to hear that this Hunters’ future appears to be safe.
By: pagen01 - 8th March 2012 at 13:14
Nothing wrong with the engine.
Didn’t the Sapphire suffer blade rubbing in some conditions, also under the impression that the Sapphire was realised early on that it wasn’t as ‘developable’ as the Avon would be – and clearly was in the 200/300?
The Sapphire (ASX, inherited from Metrovick F.9) did feature an annular combustion chamber from the start, which was a more modern layout, and which the Avon switched to from the 200 series, and ASM did use a superior fuel atomiser design in its turbojets.
Have also seen it written that the Rolls Royce obtained use from ASM for their superior compressor design.
Interesting that the Americans choose the Sapphire to develop as the J-65 though, (inc fitment in their Canberra versions), rather than the Avon.
Good to hear that this Hunters’ future appears to be safe.
By: MancFrank - 8th March 2012 at 12:48
Didn’t the Sapphire have its own issues with centreline closure acquiring the moniker of “Sandpaper Sapphire”?? 😮
Regards,
Frank
By: MancFrank - 8th March 2012 at 12:48
Didn’t the Sapphire have its own issues with centreline closure acquiring the moniker of “Sandpaper Sapphire”?? 😮
Regards,
Frank
By: alertken - 8th March 2012 at 11:15
oz: Sapphire and Avon engined Hunter – which was better?
“(Hunter F.Mk.2) Sapphire was normally preferred to (F.Mk.1/ Avon: ) virtually surge-free (it) developed slightly more thrust at lower s.f.c”; F.K.Mason,Hawker Hunter,PSL,91,P44; Gunston,RR,P135: 150 ASM-Hunters displaced by Avon/F.Mk.6: “strangely (as) in almost all respects (ASM-Mks.2/5 were) superior (to Avon-Mks.1/4).” MSP tooled shadows for Canberra and Avon for them and for many Hunters+all Swifts; ASM snapped under Wyvern/Python, Gannet/Double-Mamba, Sapphire for Victor 1/Javelin, schemes and rockets. MoS diverted ASM from Hunter/P.1B on grounds of industrial/R&D loading. Nothing wrong with the engine.
By: alertken - 8th March 2012 at 11:15
oz: Sapphire and Avon engined Hunter – which was better?
“(Hunter F.Mk.2) Sapphire was normally preferred to (F.Mk.1/ Avon: ) virtually surge-free (it) developed slightly more thrust at lower s.f.c”; F.K.Mason,Hawker Hunter,PSL,91,P44; Gunston,RR,P135: 150 ASM-Hunters displaced by Avon/F.Mk.6: “strangely (as) in almost all respects (ASM-Mks.2/5 were) superior (to Avon-Mks.1/4).” MSP tooled shadows for Canberra and Avon for them and for many Hunters+all Swifts; ASM snapped under Wyvern/Python, Gannet/Double-Mamba, Sapphire for Victor 1/Javelin, schemes and rockets. MoS diverted ASM from Hunter/P.1B on grounds of industrial/R&D loading. Nothing wrong with the engine.
By: David Burke - 8th March 2012 at 10:01
The Hunter is one of the easiest aircraft to move by road so it shouldnt cost too much of our tax payers cash!
By: David Burke - 8th March 2012 at 10:01
The Hunter is one of the easiest aircraft to move by road so it shouldnt cost too much of our tax payers cash!
By: freebird - 8th March 2012 at 09:58
Oliver
Many thanks for the infomation.
Freebird
By: freebird - 8th March 2012 at 09:58
Oliver
Many thanks for the infomation.
Freebird
By: OliverM - 8th March 2012 at 09:52
The Hunter will go back to the IWM Duxford this summer, and the Army are having to foot the bill!
It will not go to Kinloss.
39 Engr Regt move to Kinloss in July 2012.
Oliver
Hon. Curator, Waterbeach Barracks Museum
By: OliverM - 8th March 2012 at 09:52
The Hunter will go back to the IWM Duxford this summer, and the Army are having to foot the bill!
It will not go to Kinloss.
39 Engr Regt move to Kinloss in July 2012.
Oliver
Hon. Curator, Waterbeach Barracks Museum
By: Firebex - 15th December 2011 at 15:19
It will probably get chopped up as there seems to be a general sweeping statement that we have to many Hunters anyway and why preserve another one.As was recently discussed when a complete machine was cut up to create a cockpit section and a bit of scrap I don’t think even the wings where saved.
Not that I subscribe to such a thing it deserves to be preserved but the IWM policy on their aircraft is going through a vague period or seems to be.
Mike e
By: ozplane - 15th December 2011 at 12:35
Crikey that was quick. Thanks very much for the info. As you say it was rather a strange decision to prefer the Avon but then there were some VERY strange decisions around that time.
By: MarkG - 15th December 2011 at 12:24
No. The only external differences are in the arrangement of vents, NACA ducts etc. relating to the engine on the centre fuselage section. The F.1/F.2 and the F.4/F.5 are virtually identical to each other apart from their engine fit.
In the early days of the Hunter the 100-series Avon suffered from surge problems due to gun gas ingestion following gun firing. This was never a problem with the Sapphire and it became a bit of a mystery why the Avon engine appeared to be the favoured powerplant. The workaround, until the 200-series Avon came along which fixed the problem, was to fit a ‘gun dipping’ system which temporarily reduced the fuel supply to the engine while the guns were being fired.
Mark
By: ozplane - 15th December 2011 at 12:08
Are there any major external differences between a Sapphire and Avon engined Hunter? Could any of our ex Royal Air Force personnel give a view on which was the better combination?
By: pagen01 - 14th December 2011 at 14:36
What ever happens to it, it would make a lovely cockpit section!
Just kidding, I agree about the scarcity of Sapphire engined Hunters, there only seems to be three complete examples in existance, this F.2, the F.5 at Tangmere and another one in private hands.
By: David Burke - 14th December 2011 at 14:22
Why would 39RE take the Hunter to Kinloss when its IWM property and is at Waterbeach to acknowledge the use of the type at Waterbeach!
By: hunterxf382 - 14th December 2011 at 14:20
WP185 is the one…. HERE at Hendon in 1987, and confirmed on Thunder & Lightnings site HERE as being in private hands in Essex.
Going back to WN904 – the primary reason it is on display at Waterbeach is to commemorate the previous Hunter Sqn’s based there in the 1950’s.. Kinloss doesn’t really have the same association with Hunters, and I suspect that it wouldn’t be viable for the Army to move it up there.
By: GATEGUARD - 14th December 2011 at 14:19
Gents
I wonder what the future holds for the Hunter F-2 (WN904) which guards the gate at Waterbeach Cambs, after the recent announcement that the former RAF base is to close soon.
I seam to remember the jet was loaned to the base by the IWM, so I hope they reclaim the jet and give it a good home. :rolleyes:Freebird
Its got a good home at Waterbeach, but I suspect 39RE will take it north to Kinloss when they move north next year
Sign In
December 14, 2011 at 9:58 am