Hurricane Data Plate

So, all it needs now is for someone who has both plates from the same aircraft to come forward and settle the matter. Fingers crossed.

I have no photos.

All I can tell you is that two constructors plates have routinely been recovered from Hurricane wrecks; one the plate from close to the fuel tap, the other the ‘clipped’ plate from the dog kennel woodwork. Both carry the serial numbrer of that aircraft, of that I can assure you 100%. I cannot tell you about the constructors numbers, though – although logic says they must surely be the same?

Foray and Rocketeer

Thanks.

Foray please check your pms

DD

I have never seen two data plates on a Hurri. Only the standard (on port Joint C) and the patent plate. If there were two plates (std and cut down) I would expect to see the same G5 or 41H number. Although split sub assemblies have some part no.s/serial no.s, I think the Hurri fus is one assembly. The sub assembly plates on elevators are more akin to ally Mod plates.

DD,

The fuselage is one component, as is the centre section, each outer wing, tailplane, fin etc. Each component, except for the fuselage, has its own data plate which lists: component name, drawing number, serial number for that particular part (not the aircraft’s number) and sometimes the date. A good series of examples is in Peter Vacher’s book about Hurricane R4118 (p.78).

The fuselage could be considered as being in two parts – forward and aft of joints G & H. The wooden ‘dog kennel’, where the ‘clipped’ data plate is reported to be, is at the rear end of the ‘front’ part. The main (and complete) data plate, fixed to joint C (lower left side of instrument panel), is also in the front part, so there is still duplication of these plates even if the fuselage is considered as two components.

It would be interesting to see if the manufacturer’s number (starting 41H or G5) is the same on both the clipped and full data plates for the same machine. I expect it would be. Unlike Tangmere1940, who I believe has extensive knowledge from wreck sites, I have not seen a pair from the same machine. Perhaps someone on the forum reading this has a pair and can confirm the serial number is the same. Here’s hoping.

DD
Your wondering is correct in as much as each sub component had its own id plate and number, which makes it even more odd why there should be two major plates (giving final ‘whole’ aircraft details) on the fuselage sub component. One would do.

I’m no expert on Hurricane construction, but are you sure that the locations of the two plates are on the same sub component? The one in the cockpit is self-evident, but where was the other – on the rear fuselage upper decking ?

If they were on different sub components, with different 41H-xxxx numbers, then the airframe serial number may have been stamped onto the ‘secondary’ plate at a later date , when the components were joined together.

Pure speculation, of course…

DD

Foray

I agree. I just wondered if ,where there were two plates, they referred to different parts of the airframe; for instance, rear fuselage and centre/cockpit section. In that case I would expect the Hawker part numbers to be different.

DD

DD
Your wondering is correct in as much as each sub component had its own id plate and number, which makes it even more odd why there should be two major plates (giving final ‘whole’ aircraft details) on the fuselage sub component. One would do.

Andy

OK, thanks.

DD

DD

I am afraid that I don’t have photos of a ‘matching pair’ to hand, although as Foray pointed out the numbers should be identical as it was the Hawker (or Gloster) aircraft number for that airframe.

Foray

I agree. I just wondered if ,where there were two plates, they referred to different parts of the airframe; for instance, rear fuselage and centre/cockpit section. In that case I would expect the Hawker part numbers to be different.

DD

[QUOTE=Discendo Duces;1963547]I believe that it wasn’t an either/or, but that this would have been fitted along with the main plate on the port side of the cockpit near the fuel tap.
I know of several recovered wrecks where both have been found.

Where two plates have been found on one airframe, could you say whether the 41H-xxxxx Hawker Part No. was the same on both plates? Just curious./QUOTE]

Discendo Duces – It would be logical for them to be the same, as that was the manufacturer’s ‘number’ for the aircraft.
Perhaps Tangmere1940, has an example to show that was the case?

I believe that it wasn’t an either/or, but that this would have been fitted along with the main plate on the port side of the cockpit near the fuel tap.

I know of several recovered wrecks where both have been found.[/QUOTE]

Where two plates have been found on one airframe, could you say whether the 41H-xxxxx Hawker Part No. was the same on both plates? Just curious.

DD

Yes, that is what I call the ‘clipped’ plate. Fitted to a substantial-ish piece of timber in the dog kennel structure. It is the same as the standard Gloster/Hawker plate but just has Gloster or Hawker clipped from the top with tin snips.

I believe that it wasn’t an either/or, but that this would have been fitted along with the main plate on the port side of the cockpit near the fuel tap.

I know of several recovered wrecks where both have been found.

Thanks, that’s most interesting to have confirmation of two plates. I wonder if anyone else out there can be more precise about the exact loaction of that second ‘clipped’ plate. Such a pity the picture of N2617’s is cropped so close, so preventing a good look at the wooden structure it is attached to – it might have provided a clue.
Presumably one is likely to be present on Hendon’s P2617 if it was a universal fitment on the early machines.

They are inspection stamps.

AID = Aeronautical Inspection Directorate

HA = Hawker Aircraft

Thus, two inspector’s stamps with their identifying numbers.

Coding in Circles

Any idea what HA306 and AID 35K mean? They are codes inside the oval and circle of the picture posted by Geoff.

Yes, that is what I call the ‘clipped’ plate. Fitted to a substantial-ish piece of timber in the dog kennel structure. It is the same as the standard Gloster/Hawker plate but just has Gloster or Hawker clipped from the top with tin snips.

I believe that it wasn’t an either/or, but that this would have been fitted along with the main plate on the port side of the cockpit near the fuel tap.

I know of several recovered wrecks where both have been found.

Photo finally added to post above!

…… On Hawker/Gloster builds there was also a second plate like this one, but with the top clipped off, that was fixed to the woodwork of the dog kennel somewhere near the head armour. I can post an image of one of those – but not a CCF one.

Andy, is this the one you were thinking of (hoping I manage to load the photo correctly) from N2617? It is from a magazine article from many years ago – maybe you were the author?

Clearly it is attached to a piece of wood and different by having the top cut off and having four attachment holes rather than the two needed to connect it to the joint C bracket. The only other one I know of like this is from P3820.
But why have two plates? I see no reason for it, unless for these (and maybe other) aircraft it was the only plate. Why move the location? I haven’t a clue. Nearest suggestion would be that on the joint C bracket it protrudes and could possbly skin the fingers, but if that was the case all would have been moved. From your experience, do you have any idea where on the dog kennel N2617’s was found? Maybe it was on the wooden side panels by the instrument panel instead?
Geoff

The problem with many RCAF hurricane airframes is that “souvenir” hunters took the plates while recovering the airframe. I know of a framed picture that included some 12 original CCF data plates. To the best of my knowledge, CCF made hurricanes had the data plate in the same location as Hawker or Gloster made hurricanes.

Two hurricanes before restored at present, 5447 (pictured below) and AW274 have their CCF data plate. I also know that Z7015 with the Shuttleworth Collection has a CCF marked plate on the pilot’s armour plating. I’ve never seen this kind of a plate before on any other CCF made hurricane.

The mystery continues…..

My understanding was that it was a ‘pattern’ aircraft.

I am sure I have seen a CCF built aircraft plate which was dull….i.e….nothing of excitement!
I remember Geoff Rodwell told me years ago that he had never seen a makers plate – he had lots of CCF experience. I will have a look in my files