Hurricane in River Dee

Thanks AT – PM re-sent.

Elliott, I never got your PM! I sent you one many moons ago about the ditched Whitley at the mouth of the Mersey but you never replied. Maybe our PMs are mutually exclusive!

Back to the Mersey Spitfire. A recce was made by a certain person on this forum but there are problems with Harbourmaster and access. Maybe not insurmountable. I am not permitted to reveal any more!

I PM’d Atcham Tower but never heard anything back. It would not take much to organise a search.

So has anyone gone out to find anything yet?

any updates?

😀

Speen, High Wycombe

Does anyone know about a WWII aircrash in Speen, High Wycombe? I’m told it’s either a Spit or a Hurricane. All has been salvaged except for a nose cone and a large patch of oil. A friend of mine used to live in a house nearby when he was young and I said I’d try and get him some history.

I was chatting with Martin Keen (Liverpool Flying School) this morning and asked about the Mersey wrecks. He confirms that they are no longer visible and haven’t been since the late 60’s or possibly the early 70’s.

On 31 Dec 1944, Hurri LF369 of No 41 OTU Hawarden dived into the estuary one mile north of Flint, for reasons unknown. Its pilot was missing believed killed. Does anyone know his name? I believe it was something like Ussdydryk but various combinations of letters have brought up nothing in a CWGC search. I am especially interested in this one because I can see the area from my window.

Did you read Ross McNeill’s answer to your question as to who the missing pilot was. If you read my reply to his quote you will see that he was my late uncle F/O Douglas Richard Kyrke Nussey after whom I was named. Please see my reply to him for more info.

Kyrke Nussey
Hudson, Quebec
Canada.

Hi Atcham Tower,

The pilot was F/O Douglas Richard Kyrke RCAF, J/43333.

Here’s how I arrived at the name.

Polish Airman:
Polish aircrew rarely appear in the CWGC registers.

B Clements and R L Grasse have compiled an excellent list of the Polish War Graves, Newark on Trent Cemetery (ISBN 1 872286 74 7)

If the pilot had been a Pole and his body recovered then it was most likely he would be buried at Newark on Trent Cemetery. Examination of the records gave no match.

A check of the Northolt Memorial for a Missing Polish Airman also gives no match so it was very unlikely that the pilot was Polish.

Czech Airman:
Most of the Czech Airmen are listed in the CWGC registers so a trawl through names Ua, Ub etc should have listed him. Examination of the records gave no match.

A similar check on the Veternari on http://www.tmavomodrysvet.cz/new/index2.htm
also gave no match so again unlikely that the airman was Czech.

So having failed on the name and Polish/Czech possibilities it was time to check on the other piece of information that you offered i.e. the pilot was not recovered.

If not Polish then the pilot should be listed on Runnymede if his body had not been recovered at the time of the crash or shortly after.

Runnymede lists 18 names for 31st Dec 1944. Most are attributed to a squadron (620, 248, 138, 137). 3 names (2 RAAF and 1 RCAF) have no unit which is typical of training losses.

Checking the RAAF names with the on-line database at http://www.awm.gov.au/database/roh.asp
confirmed that they were assigned to No.138 Sqn at time of death.

This left the RCAF name Nussey. A look at They Shall Grow Not Old by Les Allison and Harry Hayward ISBN 0-920436-41-2 gives the following entry:

“Nussey, Douglas Richard Kyrke F/O(P) J43333/R207038
From Hudson Heights, Quebec. Killed Dec 31/44 age 20. #41 Operational Training Unit. F/O Nussey lost his life when his Hurricane aircraft #LF369 crashed four hundred yards off shore, one mile north of Flint, Scotland. Flying Officer Pilot Nussey has no known grave, his name is inscribed on the Runnymede War Memorial, Englefield Green, Egham, Surrey, England.2

The error in location is typical of the type of error in this publication.

Regards
Ross

You are referring to my late Uncle Kyrke, my namesake, who was a P/O in the RCAF on a training mission when his Hurricane crashed for some unknown reason. He had only been overseas a few short months.The story I was always told by my Dad, Keith Nussey, his older brother who served in Europe as a Lieutenant in the Canadian Artillery going overseas to England in August 1941, was that he was flying so low that his wing somehow made contact with a wave. His body was never found. My grandmother never gave up hope tht he would be found but he never was. He was 20 years old at the time. I was reading my Dad’s journal the other day and he mentioned finding out that Kyrke was missing and then a week later got confirmation that he was presumed dead.
I know his name is inscribed at Runnymede War Memorial.

Kyrke Nussey
Hudson, Quebec
Canada

Don’t apologise, Nosediver. Because you are a southerner, or at least live in the south, I made the probably unwarranted assumption that you were unfamiliar with the Mersey! Helicopter rides – yes, the Helicentre at Liverpool Airport about three miles away. I really must ask them to investigate while on a training flight. We in ATC do them plenty of favours!

Apologies, was just joking Atcham, tidal estuaries are dangerous enough without shipping channels, if they weren’t I doubt there’d still be a spitfire buried in this one. So in that respect it’s a good thing, there aren’t many challenges left out there in this world that haven’t been met.
I certainly think that your article has brought a really good and worthwhile challenge to light, be very surprised if you haven’t been instrumental in spurring someone into action…
Know anyone who does helicopter rides?

Don’t even think about walking to the Spit on the sandbank, guys. The deep water entrance channel to the Manchester Ship Canal runs between it and the shore!

Sgt Hanzlicek grave/burial in West Derby

Is this the one?! Was at CockpitFest 2004

That looks like the blighter! I’d recognise the oily front plate anywhere!

3 miles eh, I’ve never tried to walk an estuary before, I’ll have to invest in a pair of inflatable trousers. Would certainly be interested in it’s exact position. So if there’s evidence on the surface, it can’t be that deeply covered. So, when the tide is out, is it high and dry or still in the soup? Sorry 101 questions. But I do have a shovel and no consideration for my own safety.

If it’s OK and you end up going, give me a shout and I’ll get me wellies out too! 😎

spitfire wreckage, does anyone know the s/n?

Spitfire P9451

Thanks to you all for the replies, there’s certainly some passion out there, dontcha just love the internet. There’s also an engine and prop + other items on a pic on the Hooton Park website I don’t suppose these are from the same aircraft?

Atcham – you are the coy one…
How many times have I read your article?

3 miles eh, I’ve never tried to walk an estuary before, I’ll have to invest in a pair of inflatable trousers. Would certainly be interested in it’s exact position. So if there’s evidence on the surface, it can’t be that deeply covered. So, when the tide is out, is it high and dry or still in the soup? Sorry 101 questions. But I do have a shovel and no consideration for my own safety.

Hasn’t anyone found the Peter Maersk yet?

Hi
Ref L1547,. the PORT side of the canopy is in the loft of No 7f Squadron ATC in Liverpool, the rest of the canopy was found by a farmer at Cartwrights Farm which is now alongside the South (New) airport at Speke.
The pilot a Sgt Hanaczeck is bueried in West Derby Cem (if you contact the cem office in Calderstones Park they will be able to tell you the Number of the grave).
I know this because when I worked for the Airport(OLD) Security I did some research into this as a person who worked with me had worked on Cartwrights Farm. 🙂 🙂

Several organisations are aware of the existence of the Spitfire because I told them. They are all very interested but, so far, nobody has actually done anything about it. What sort of a state it is in after about 36,000 tides I dread to think. However, the wings seem to be buried in sand and mud so may be better preserved than one might imagine.

About ten years ago, I was working in Liverpool Tower when a locally-based Chipmunk pilot requested to orbit the 09 final approach over the river. Since it was quiet, permission was readily granted. Curious, I asked if he was looking for the Hurricane wreck. He confirmed this and said he was also looking for any sign of the Heston Phoenix lost in the river around 1940. He saw nothing and I suggested that it would be more fruitful to look at the Spitfire site on the other side of the river. He confirmed that there was something in the sand in the right place but it looked like a boat.

For Nosediver, if you are not familiar, the Mersey is nearly three miles wide at this point! It certainly has the makings of an exciting recovery if we can first ascertain what is actually there.

At this point, I must confess that I wrote the FlyPast article about wrecks in the Mersey. (About five years ago, maybe, I haven’t got the copy to hand.)

Is this the one?! Was at CockpitFest 2004

Hi Nosediver,
I have some info on the airframe they have at Hooton, but it’s somewhere around the house, thanks to certain children! I’ll try to dig it out…

There is a pretty complete cockpit section, with the instrument panel and the armoured front glass, as well as some personal effects excavated with the site… there’s a small display in one of Hootons buildings, with the history of the Spit, as well as some info on the pilot.