Hurricane MkII Wind Tunnel Data?

Thanks adrian_gray and dhfan, at least I know it’s not me. Aeronut2019, you can also contact me via admin@av8r.co.uk if that helps?

Cheers all

I did come up with an approximate number for PMs some time ago, which obviously I can’t remember, but it’s certainly in the hundreds and, IIRC, several hundred.

Dosman, PMs are one of the “features” of the forum software that drives people nuts. You seem to have to have posted x posts before they are enabled, but with the less- than-minimal support available no-one knows how many!

Hi Aeronut2019 – I am interested!

Unfortunately I cannot work out how to PM you (your post has no clickable elements and searching the forum for your username doesn’t come up with anything). Is this a premium feature?

Alternatively if you use LinkedIn, you can connect with me there via this article?

I have electronic copies of two Hurricane reports, namely;

Blower tunnel and flight test on direct-vision openings in the Hurricane windscreen. July 1941 RAE AERO TN 664?

Wind tunnel tests of full scale and model Hurricane wing: Hinge moments of ailerons with and without tabs. Report BA 1448 January 1938.

PM if your are interested.

Update: for future reference I’ve sourced two reports from FAST, which don’t appear in public lists of data (as far as I know).

The first covers wind tunnel tests on the Hawker Interceptor prototype; but not the first set of tests in 1934, rather there appears to have been a second set of tests in 1936. This includes wing-only L/D/M as well as full aircraft results. Very useful.

Also found are results from static strength tests on the prototype in 1937. This would have reflected the truss outer wing so as I’m working with a Mk II with a monocoque structure, only the centre wing part of the results would be helpful. 

ARC 2772  “Experiments on a Model of the Hawker Interceptor Monoplane in the Compressed Air Tunnel”, 12 December 1936
RAE MT 11750 “Tests of Hawker experimental wing representing Air Ministry Specifications F36/34, 15/36 and P4/34 prototype”, AM 522507/36/RDA1, April 1937

Yep, request has already gone into them! 

Dosman. Don’t forget FAST. They have access to copies of wind tunnel tests carried out at Farnborough. 

Thank you Oracal, Fargo Boyle, and Hypersonic, this is all really useful! I will try the Hawker Association, and I wasn’t aware of the National Aerospace Library option.

It seems like the papers I really need are the ARC Aero1674 (I should be able to order this from the National Archive) and any NPL reports on the Hawker Interceptor Monoplane (the NPL’s publications archive only seems to go back to the 1990s – so this is my only lead at the moment (Edit: FAST have old NPL reports so I could pay them to research)).

For reference – Looking through the NAL and National Archive databases and have managed to work out the following (details here in case it helps anyone else):

a. ARC Current Paper Ae1674 (Aero 1674?), Collar, AR, “The performance of the ‘Hurricane’ and ‘Spitfire’ aeroplanes”, June 1940 (National Archives DSIR 23/7847).

b. Paper 2016/03, Ackroyd, JAD, “The Aerodynamics of the Spitfire”, Journal of Aeronautical History, 2017 (NAL CID 144677 public copy here (both say Draft 2, but this appears to be the final version)), covers and supplements ARC Aero1674.

c. ARC R&M 1826 (ARC 3283?), Serby, J.E., Morgan, M.B. and Cooper, E.R., “Flight test on the profile drag of 14% and 25% thick wings”, 1937 (NAL CID 178425).

d. ARC R&M 1937, Staff of Aerodynamics Dept, RAE, “Flight and model tests of the ‘Hawcon’ with wings 30% thick at the root”, 1939 (NAL CID 178581).

e. RAE BA1298, Shaw & Cameron, “Model tests of the Hawker Interceptor radiator cowl”, May 1936 (NAL CID 178285)

f. RAE BA1298(a), Shaw & Cameron, “Addendum to Report BA1298 ‘Model tests of the Hawker Interceptor radiator cowl'”, August 1936 (NAL CID 178286)

Regarding Any NPL reports on the 1/10th Scale Hurricane Model tested at Teddington in 1934:

The NPL tests happened in August 1934, before the F5/34 (November 1934) and updated F36/34 (January 35?, NA listing) and F15/36 (added Merlin II) specifications were released, so any wind tunnel testing probably was carried out with reference to a Hawker “Interceptor Monoplane”, “Hawker High Speed Interceptor Monoplane”, or maybe even (outside chance) a “Fury Monoplane”

The National Aerospace Library does not appear to have any papers involving the Wind Tunnel tests of the Hawker prototype (searching for wind tunnel and search terms above)

hypersonic.

You, and other aviation enthusiasts really should visit the NAL, it’s a real gem. I’ve been using the RAeS library since it was at Hamilton place and have donated several documents since then. 

Oracal – sorry to hear about the COVID,

The library – we RAeS members, who are UK based, have our own access system to the on-line database. It is my understanding that we are also granted priority for visits and the loan of books and documents etc. There is a strict control on the number of visitors at any one time, I seem to think (or was that because of COVID restrictions?). I’ve never visited but I’ve used the database a number of times for research. 

The RAeS is a supporter of the library which is run as a charity. I think Air-Britain (I’m also a member) were discussing, sometime ago, about “joining the club”. Maybe Key pubs might like to join – if anybody is in the office at this time, on a Saturday night? 

I hope that has cleared things up…

Hi hypersonic.

Yes I take your point re ARC dates. I’m suffering the COVID, so my post was more direct than they usually are. No slight intended.

Re the library. I don’t understand what you are suggesting re the use of the facility. It’s available to all visitors.

Anyway – back to the topic?

Oracal,

I did say I believe the ARC closed down in 1945. I have just checked and it continued post that date with an increased role from 1945. I knew, in the back of my mind, there was a change relating to the year 1945. However, it was a minor point to the assistance I was hoping to provide. 

A member of the Royal Aeronautical Society (as per Dosman and myself) is not the same as a being a member of The National Aerospace Library. Although membership of the former does infer rights to be a member of the latter. Which Dosman may, or may not, have been aware of.

I’m afraid Dosman has a tough task on his hands to locate the documents he needs.

The Aeronautical Research Council was still going long after 1945 – it was, I think, closed in 1979. TNA and other organisations have available many thousands of their reports and publications. 

The National Aerospace Library Farnborough is available to members and non-members alike. They also have an excellent search tool that permits members to search all their holdings and to view many publications online.

Having mentioned this system, in my thread dated 30 Jan 24 – BBMF Flying Hour Totals. I didn’t expect to be talking about its actual use, in another thread, a few days later!

However, Dosman I note you are a Fellow of the Royal Aeronautical Society (RAeS). I’m a Member – could they help, in some way? By publishing your requirements/request for assistance.

Your RAeS membership gives you access to the National Aerospace Library either online or by personal visit. The library holds many books, documents and research papers. The RAeS HQ can get you access. Might be worth a try. ARC at Duxford might be another possible help – maybe they have copies in the bottom of a drawer in a filing cabinet. There are of course other warbird restoration companies out there. Finally, the AERADE database at Cranfield Uni might also be able to assist – if you haven’t already tried of course. I put “ARC R&M 1826” into the search facility and it through up 3500 documents. However, I don’t have a log-in so that was far as I could go.

The Aeronautical Research Council (ARC) closed down in 1945, I believe, so these specialist documents are going to be very difficult to track down I’m afraid.

Going forward I wish you well.

This organisation might have something, or could point you in the right direction?

HawkerAssociation.org.uk

Hi Dosman.

I would guess that any original Hawker company files that survive will now be held by BAe Systems (Heritage) at Farnborough.

Another possible but less likely source, also at Farnborough, could be FAST.