Hurricane’s W9179 / W9184

Thanks for the burial date Chris. I’ve sent you a P.M.

Cheers
Dave

I can confirm that 1349862 Sgt Robert Hardy Maxwell MACFADZEAN was buried at St Gregorys Churchyard, Kirknewton. 14th May 1943, service conducted by WHP Hills, Chaplain RAF. Not far from RAF Milfield.
I have visited the grave and seen the Burial register.

Chris D.

Air Britain Crash List in Aeromilitaria only detail crashes on land

Thanks Paul – I should’ve realized that!

Cheers
Dave

Dave

Air Britain Crash List in Aeromilitaria only detail crashes on land!

Ross McNeill probably has the most comprehensive sea crash information for around the UK which he has been gathering for many many years now.

Paul

Hi Paul/Ross,

Thanks for the additional information. The Form 78 simply shows W9179 as a Cat E on 27-Mar 1943, but form 1180 confirms that W9179 crashed into the sea at 04:43 with MACFADZEAN as pilot. MACFADZEAN’s son is in the process of requesting his service records which may confirm more, but I’m satisifed MACFADZEAN was flying W9179 and his association with W9184 is a mistake

I have the Northumberland Aviation Diary and Air Britain Aeromilitaria Summer 2009, but not the AB “W” Serials hence my confusion as to why W9179 wasn’t mentioned

Cheers
Dave

P.S. Happy to fwd the forms to you for reference. P.M. if interested with email address

Ross

I agree about published lists… and I also have no doubt MACFADZEAN buried as per CWGC register.. It is just that the evidence is increasing that he did not crash on land…

Paul

Never disputed the CWGC burial.

Just quoted the entry in the private diary to show that no body was recovered from the wreck by the diver at the date given.

The RNLI and Salvage Diver records are part of my previous background research on this loss.

All Form 78 will give is presumed date of loss. Form 1180 links MACFADZEAN with W9179 and will do the same for the remaining aircraft but I am still waiting to order the film reels.

The balance of probability is W9179 in sea at Amble but this needs to be proved.

Too many published lists being quoted as fact but very little actual fact behind them.

Ross

Ross

MACFADZEAN was down initially as “Missing believed killed on Active Service”, then subsequently updated to “Killed on Active Service” so a body must have been recovered later

Paul

Ross

Thanks – Not very much detail in the ORB ! Prehaps Dave can supply images or detail of the form 78 or 1180 to see what location it gives for W9179 #

Paul

Paul,

The jury is still out on what, where and who

There is a reasonable amount of supporting info for a Hurricane lost off Amble on this day but nothing yet to confirm serial

MARCH 27TH. – AMBLE, NORTHUMBERLAND.
A Hurricane aeroplane had crashed into the sea, but only wreckage was found. – Rewards, £11 8s.
(Source: RNLI Records of Service 1939-46)

From diary of Brass Hat diver Ken Lucas

27th March
Worked on S. Brake. Skip called about Hurricane crash at Amble.

28th March
Skip and Tom left for Amble. Ken returned from Scotland.

29th March
Left with lorry for Amble, arrived 1900 hours.

30th March
Stayed at RAF camp. Skip and Tom arrived. Strong westerly winds, no boats out.

31st March/1st April
Winds continue. No boats out. We all stay in camp.

2nd April
Winds dropping. Arrangements made for next morning. We all go to dance.

3rd April
We all leave jetty 0700 hours for wreck. No body there. Lorry left for Grimsby

All that ORB confirms is two pilots killed but lists no serials.

Regards
Ross

Interesting According to Air Britain Serials W9179 dived into sea on this date

re: “Records I have list two Hurricanes of 59OTU lost that day (W9121 & W9184) “

These two aircraft in Northumberland Aviation Diary and Air Britain Aeromilitaria Summer 2009 as crashing on this day with 59 OTU

Air Britain has

27.03.43 Hurricane I W9121 59 OTU 1/2 mile SE of Brunton Cause: Undershot Landing at Night
27.03.43 Hurricane I W9184 59 OTU Chathill Northumberland Cause: Crashed on Take off at Night

I could not find MACFADZEAN on the UK Death Registers but it looks like a body was recovered because he is buried at KIRKNEWTON (ST. GREGORY) CHURCHYARD

Northumberland Aviation Diary puts Sgt (Pilot) Gordon A. CULLENER – 1383311(who died of wounds or injuries received on active service) on Hurricane W9121 at Brunton. But same source had Sgt Robert H.M. MACFADZEAN on W9184 at Chathill, Northumberland which as we now know is incorrect

Of course no one may have been killed on W9184. The 59 OTU ORB may solve this mystery but I do not have it!