Hypothetical Iranian kamakazi attack on carrier group

would be No way what any strike force would get close to do any lanch remember as soon as US Carrier Battle groups enter Hot Zones they have a Hawkeye on 24/7 plus in the Gulf area there are at any given time three Looking Glass Aircraft in the Air be it USAF or NATO or one of are Allies.

Ummm, yeah, I realise that AEW aircraft as well as AEGIS class cruisers will be looking around very carefully… I was just responding to the suggestion that 6 F/a-18Es could “take on” anything the Iranians have.

The F-14s might still have phoenix missiles and their radars are certainly NOT inferior to the Hornets set… and I would check the flight ranges there buddy. I think a land based F-14 could take off with full weapons and fuel and land in a similar weapon load state… unlike when it launches from a carrier. Besides range isn’t an issue for the iranians… they are fighting on home turf.

Equally to squeese the balls of the US, Iran doesn’t need to sink a carrier… they can just sink a few oil carriers a week and close the Persian gulf. Land based Silkworms and other ancient missiles could be used very cheaply with the odd more capable missile to hunt for military vessels.
I doubt you’ll find the Iranians as easy to defeat as the Iraqis. We are talking to a side that resorted to wave attacks that led Saddam to use chem and bio weapons in desperation.

Hmmm, you mean like 6 F/A-18Es vs a dozen Iranian F-14s? Would be very interesting… and my assumed anti American reputation on this forum has nothing to do with my sadness that those yukky F/A-18s might actually splash a few Tomcats which I actually respect, but if the Iranians really want to threaten a carrier group then with short ranged F/A-18Es performing the missions sending F-14s up to engage both the strikers and their tankers makes the strike package from a US carrier more vulnerable than it has ever been… imagine if the Iranians bought a few Tu-22M3s and fitted them with Yakhonts or even Moskits… ahh well.

Hi Gary,

Well first gary I’ve never said your Bias toward us Yanks, with that said there would be No way what any strike force would get close to do any lanch remember as soon as US Carrier Battle groups enter Hot Zones they have a Hawkeye on 24/7 plus in the Gulf area there are at any given time three Looking Glass Aircraft in the Air be it USAF or NATO or one of are Allies.

Plus if any thing did lanch from Iran we would pick it up on are Radars station near and around Iran.

Plus the F-18E/F have alonger range then do any of the F-14 the Iranians have and are new look down shot downs would engage them before they even new what hit them.

Also one thing you all are forgetting if the Iranians did put up at Strike package as soon as it got into the Gulf there would be a Strike on its way to Terhan and they would be intercept by ground base Naval and Air Force before they could even get any sort of missle lock.

Cheers Crazymainer

air to air missiles like AIM-7 Sparrow and AIM-9 Sidewinder lost roughly half their range when they made a SAM version of them. Maybe it works both ways, with a SAM like HAWK doubling its range at high altitude?

Would then be about 80 km….

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-23.html

Just a thought..

Didn’t the IRIAF modify some Hawk SAMs into air-launched missiles? Have any data on their performance as AAMs, Garry?

No information, but they are not stupid and they have Phoenix missiles to base their improvements upon.
A HAWK sized Active radar homing air to air weapon would have a quite significant range and the F-14 has the radar to exploit a long range weapon.

A high altitude high speed launch it will certainly outrange most AAMs currently available especially if it adopts an efficient flight profile.

Didn’t the IRIAF modify some Hawk SAMs into air-launched missiles? Have any data on their performance as AAMs, Garry?

Oh by the way why this is going on the CAP Birds will have been on the Target faster the Pig on Slop. I’ll put 6 F/A-18Es up against anything the Iranians can put up.

Hmmm, you mean like 6 F/A-18Es vs a dozen Iranian F-14s? Would be very interesting… and my assumed anti American reputation on this forum has nothing to do with my sadness that those yukky F/A-18s might actually splash a few Tomcats which I actually respect, but if the Iranians really want to threaten a carrier group then with short ranged F/A-18Es performing the missions sending F-14s up to engage both the strikers and their tankers makes the strike package from a US carrier more vulnerable than it has ever been… imagine if the Iranians bought a few Tu-22M3s and fitted them with Yakhonts or even Moskits… ahh well.

Hi Guys,

I normally am over on the Historic forum, so first let me put some things into perspective. From fist hand witness of the Aegis at work.

When and if the So-Call threat be it the 747 or what ever the radar will have a lock and targeting within 3 minutes of first contact the Anti-Shipping and Anti-Aircraft Batterys will be on line with 20 seconds of the first sighting. After the making contact with said target and if target doesn’t give proper req. then with-in 3 minutes after a quick Red Phone to the White House War Room the target will be sent to a waterey grave end of Subject.

Oh by the way why this is going on the CAP Birds will have been on the Target faster the Pig on Slop. I’ll put 6 F/A-18Es up against anything the Iranians can put up.

Cheers Crazymainer

Iran does not have nukes. Even if they did they wouldn’t waste them by letting them drift in the ocean.

Your post did not state this was part of a defensive strategy for protecting Iran… using mines with nuclear warheads and long time future fuses would be the most effective option otherwise as it is denyible. There is no point hitting a carrier with a 747 if your country is reduced to ashes 30 minutes later by ICBMs which you certainly will not stop.

The idea really is what Iran might do to attack an invasion force. Attacking the Panama Cannel, with or without a carrier group in the locks is not immediatly helpful to Iran.

They will most likely be restricted to stopping any Strike aircraft launched from the carriers.

Being friendly with the Russians and maybe getting satellite imagery of the persian gulf… or perhaps putting up their own satellite to cover a relatively small area might make spotting the carrier group much easier… if they are the victims of a strike then they could legitimately start launching anti ship missiles in the general direction of the carrier group… a few hundred would not even likely make it to the carrier but will make their lives difficult and keep them very busy while you try and bring down their strike aircraft.
You might get lucky and they might make a mistake and you might get a hit. Remember no technology is perfect. It was over 1 and a half minutes after the order was given to shoot down what was thought to be an F-14 but turned out to be an Airbus and the time the missile actually launched… and that was from the robocruiser… AEGIS class ship.

Iran does not have nukes. Even if they did they wouldn’t waste them by letting them drift in the ocean.

The idea really is what Iran might do to attack an invasion force. Attacking the Panama Cannel, with or without a carrier group in the locks is not immediatly helpful to Iran.

Very simple really… just lay nuclear armed mines in places where US carriers travel… cover them in rock to disguise them as rocks and fit them with passive MAD sensors that can distinguish a nuclear carrier and lay them near a choke point… there are plenty around… the Panama and Suez canal, the entry points to harbours a carrier is likely to visit in the next 10 years or so… give it nuclear power and let it sit there… eventually you will get your fish… any rollonrolloff vessel would make it easy, but almost any other type of vessel would do as well.

A delay of say 5 years on the seeker should make denyability pretty convincing as long as you make sure no Iranian registered vessels go near the area within a year or so of the event…. hey if a Nimitz visit is planned why not get a third party to charter a Syrian cargo ship to arrive just before… 🙂

Yes, most of the AEGIS SAMs, as well as the AMRAAM I believe, have a home-on-jam capability, meaning that jamming just makes you a better target. And the latest AIM-9 variants are very flare-resistant, so decoying them isn’t going to be all that simple either.

The radar on a jet might burn through, I rather doubt an AMRAAM has the power.

I agree on the AMRAAM, but imagine the power of the AEGIS radar… I don’t really know much about radar technology, but I imagine the Aegis is able to focus the radar energy and be able to burn through just about anything within say 50 km…?

I think the radar can “burn” through jamming as the distance between jammer and radar is reduced. I must admit that I haven’t seen this any other places than in techno thrillers, but it sounds likely. Hope someone can confirm this.

The radar on a jet might burn through, I rather doubt an AMRAAM has the power.

I think the radar can “burn” through jamming as the distance between jammer and radar is reduced. I must admit that I haven’t seen this any other places than in techno thrillers, but it sounds likely. Hope someone can confirm this.

If you think US Naval ships aren’t at a high state of readiness when they enter the Gulf, you would be wrong.

This idea just won’t work. Option one-use jamming and fly at low level. AEGIS detects the jamming source. Alert fighters are airborne inside of 5 minutes and find a 747. Iran looses one 747. Option 2-the “mimic the airline” idea. Flight schedules and routes are common knowledge to radar operators in the area. If you’re flying without a transponder code, you’ll be investigated. If you try the “we have an emergency” route, you’ll be investigated. I just don’t see this ever working, especially after 9/11.

AEGIS can find the planes no problem, but how does it shoot down a jammer aircraft? Can a SAM home on jam? Can AMRAAM home on jam? Alert fighters will have to get close and hope their IR AAMs don’t get decoyed. If that don’t work they go to guns. I don’t know how long it takes to rip apart a 747 with 20mm guns, but chances are they’d run out of time. Actually this is what happened in my story.

Think of the attack in three stages. Stage one is to sneak in as close as possible without being detected. Stage two is to fire missiles to keep the defender busy, meanwhile use jamming to prevent missile lock. Stage three is just to crash through the final line of defense with four really big planes.

BTW I looked it up on FAS Iranian airforce has 4 747F (freighters) and 30 Su-24MKs, which is why I assembled this force.

I doubt the US Navy ever takes a risk with their carriers. They would have at least one Hawkeye and a couple of fighters on station 24/7. With at least on Aegis cruiser and probably at least two Aegis destroyers in every battle group, they would always control the airspace around the carrier. In these days, they’d probably smoke anything uninvited that comes within 10 miles of the carrier.

The best bet against a carrier is an SSK. I’ve heard more than one story about Norwegian diesel boats surfacing of the bow of an american carrier :diablo:

If you think US Naval ships aren’t at a high state of readiness when they enter the Gulf, you would be wrong.

This idea just won’t work. Option one-use jamming and fly at low level. AEGIS detects the jamming source. Alert fighters are airborne inside of 5 minutes and find a 747. Iran looses one 747. Option 2-the “mimic the airline” idea. Flight schedules and routes are common knowledge to radar operators in the area. If you’re flying without a transponder code, you’ll be investigated. If you try the “we have an emergency” route, you’ll be investigated. I just don’t see this ever working, especially after 9/11.

Any side that starts the war will have suprise onb its side.

If US forces are not on battle stations they will take time in checking the ID of any airliner that passes close by.

If on the other hanmd they are ready for any potential Iranian attack, a couple of F-18s will check out teh intruders and probably shoot them down before then get within 50 miles….

No problem defeating them either, torpedos are typically even faster. And the KILO doesn’t even have to be going all that fast for it’s signature to balloon (and it’s not all that fast flat-out compared to the SSN-688 class anyway).

SOC

No problems tracking high-speed targets, but big problems defeating them?