I Give Up !!!

RE: I Give Up !!!

Yes, prevention is better than cure.

But at the same time, a disproportionate amount of effort is being put into the “war” against smokers, no doubt because they form an axis of evil under divine guidance from Osama, Saddam and the Ayatollah.

I’m not a smoker (it annoys the hell out of me) but in my opinion, security is a bit dodgy these days and air safety needs a good look at. So why focus all that brainpower on smoking when there is ATC to sort out? I’m sure faulty ATC causes (certainly, has caused) more deaths. Crap security has too. Even, dare I say it, mistakes by pilots.

RE: I Give Up !!!

From BBC News online

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Sunday, 4 August, 2002, 09:01 GMT 10:01 UK
Man charged with smoking on flight

A man has been charged with smoking on a plane, after the captain called for police as he landed at Leeds-Bradford Airport.
Officers were called at about 2230 BST on Saturday, a West Yorkshire Police spokesman said.

The arrested man, from Beeston in Leeds, was charged with smoking on an aircraft, under the Aviation Act.

The 39-year-old was bailed to appear before Leeds magistrates at a later date.

The pilot of the flight from Palmas in Tenerife had called for police, alleging some passengers became abusive when asked not to smoke.

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ho hum… you don’t think the reason he became abusive was because he was told how to get away with it in a magazine….

RE: I Give Up !!!

Wow, I’ve been gone a week and a half, and this thread is still going. I picked up the magazine when I was in London and read the article, LOL, what a joke. They basically show the person kneeling down on one knee, stepping on the flushing mechanism with his other foot, and simultaneously blowing the smoke in the toilet bowl. First of all, how many airliners have foot flushers? None that I’ve ridden on and I’ve ridden on quite a few. Secondly, I don’t know that anybody would want to stick their face into a toilet bowl(unless vomitting), let alone a vacuum toilet. The vacuum toilet would likely suck your nosehairs right out!

GD1

RE: I Give Up !!!

>Exactly, prevention is the best cure! Thank you wysiwyg thats what ive been trying to say all along.There has been no direct link with smoking and an incindent leading to a crash so lets keep it that way ! But lets not give the idiots new ways to try things out that could lead to a serious incident.

RE: I Give Up !!!

Exactly, prevention is the best cure!

RE: I Give Up !!!

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 29-07-02 AT 10:58 PM (GMT)]Plastic bin liners catch light (even a cig. butt which has been out for between 0 and 5 mins can make paper, plastic etc alight!) easily and produce toxic fumes in cases!

RE: I Give Up !!!

I fully agree with you wisywig, I’ve seen the re-construction video of the Saudia Tristar several times during recurrent SEP training and any kind of on board fire scares the hell out of me. That fire I believe started in the rear hold and spread very very quickly into the cabin, not caused by anybody smoking though. I have had to deal with idiotic pax that smoke in the toilets and then put the still lit cigarette end in the waste paper bin!!!! I’ve even heard of pax putting
cling-film, tape and plastic glasses over the smoke detecters in the toilets so the alarm doesn’t sound when they smoke. To most people it all sounds quite funny and harmless stuff but it is serious and a toilet/cabin fire can spread so quickly and soon get out of hand.

I’m not a smoker and I can’t appreciate what it must be like to want something so bad (except a good nights sleep during a transatlantic night flight!!!!) so I can understand to a point why people want to smoke on board but I think most people now are aware of the dangers, they are told several times during PA’s and safety cards/briefs. When we had smoking sections on our aircraft I used to notice several smokers sitting in the non smoking section and then going the smoking section to smoke during the flight. It appeared that even smokers themselves didn’t want to sit in the smoking section and sit for several hours and breath in the horrible air.

A bit of a tricky one, I know a lot of people do feel very strongly about it from both sides of the argument.

RE: I Give Up !!!

I agree with Mongu and GD1. As GD1 said there is no crash till now directly affilated with smoking on board.

RE: I Give Up !!!

I have got the blackbox transcript of the flight and it was due to smoke that the plane came down In the Indian ocean.

RE: I Give Up !!!

Nobody is upset here people, at least I’m not. This is a forum, we express our opinions, if things get a little ‘fired up’ (no pun intended), once in a while, so be it. It’s rather rare that it happens anyhow. I agree that a fire in an aircraft high above the earth is a bad thing. Valujet, which was an up-and-coming low-fare airline in the U.S., and the original launch customer of the MD-95/B717, had one of their DC9’s go down over the everglades in ’96. Turns out there was something in the cargo hold that caused the cabin to catch fire. Long story short, Valujet was done after that, bad publicity, FAA sanctions, ballgame. However, I’m just going to reiterate my 2 main points from the earlier post, and I’ll be done with this. 1) In full agreeance with Mongu, I SERIOUSLY DOUBT, that of all accidents that have happened in aviation history, has there been one DIRECTLY CAUSED by a smoker in the cabin doing so legally or illegally. 2) If somebody is going to smoke in the cabin, legally or illegally, it’s going to happen, regardless of whether one magazine decides to print a ‘how to’ article, showing ways of getting away with it. It’s not going to encourage more people to do it, that have done it already. For the record, gentlemen, Maxim has a ‘how to’ article every issue, most of them are pretty humorous, none to be taken seriously. One in fact was, “How to overtake terrorists that have overtaken your flight.” I read that article, me being an aviation fan, thought it was pretty funny. Now, had they printed an aritcle saying, “How to HIGHJACK an airplane,” I agree that would have been COMPLETELY out of line, and extremely unaesthetic. Was this smoking article in the same ballgame, some of you may think so, I think not. I think it should be taken with a grain of salt. As Ben Affleck’s character once said in ‘Boiler Room,’ That’s it, I’m done!

GD1

RE: I Give Up !!!

Thanks you guys who took my side.For a bit i thought i might have gone a bit overboard ? Going away on tues to LAS for a week so speak to you all later.And for those of you that i upset im sorry but thats what this is all about to discuss things.See you all in a week and im sure ill have a tale to to set you off on one Mongu !!!!! LOL !!

RE: I Give Up !!!

I didn’t say it was due to smoking, it certainly wasn’t, I said a fire broke out in the cargo hold. But I’d prefer there were less potential things aboard that could start a fire.

RE: I Give Up !!!

If the SAA wreckage was never found, it would not be correct to ascribe the incident to smoking. Smoke can be caused by lots of things, not just cigarettes.

RE: I Give Up !!!

about 6 weeks ago, an easyjet 737 en route GLA-AMS made an emergency landing at NCL after smoke was perceived on baord. It turned out to be ‘just’ dry ice from the cooling unit that had erroneously been put in the bin, but think of the panic on that flight as the captain takes it down, having announced an emergency to the pax.

I can’t quite recollect the details of the Saudia incident, beyond Asphyxiation of most if not all of on board, so I won’t comment on it. But there are precedents.

Twenty odd years ago, an SAA 747 Combi crashed into the Indian Ocean after a fire broke out in the cargo compartment. It was enroute South East Asia (can’t remember where exactly) to Jo’burg. The Bulk of the Wreckage was never found.

If pax are going into the lavatories, and disconnecting the smoke alarms there, purely to have a fag, you’re running a couple of risks…

a) A smouldering butt could be put in the wastepaper bin. Cue waste paper bursting into flames.

b) The Smoke alarm may not be reconnected properly, and this may not be noticed for a while.

Now, I don’t smoke myself, but if ppl want to, it’s up to them. Even when you could smoke on board, it was only IN your seat, you weren’t allowed to in the aisle, even.

Ok, some companies have a smoking area at teh back, but they have proper ashtrays, which are never fitted in toilets, anyway.

RE: I Give Up !!!

This seems to be a high horse kind of issue, what?

As I stated above, my objection to smoking is just the usual social one – ie. the smell and the reduction in air quality.

As Greekdude articulated, it is hard to find an accident that has caused by smoking. I’m not sure what happened with the Saudi Tristar – judging from wysiwyg’s post, it was a crash which was caused by smoking? Was it entirely due to smoking?

I probably admit in this case then, that smoking should not be allowed for safety reasons. The legal status still confuses me though. Anyone care to elaborate further?

My real objection is with the crass inconsistency amongst airlines. They preach safety, and some airline employees here seem to get hot under the collar at the suggestion that Greekdude and I are “disregarding” safety. As I stated above, maybe I was wrong. I stand corrected. HOWEVER – At the same time, safety controls are not particularly good in my opinion. They are inconsistent as far as I can see them. And beating people up over smoking seems like a bit of a cover up?

In my earlier post on a different thread, I mentioned my experience with being given plastic cuttlery on one sector, and metal cuttlery on the second sector of the same flight. This was only three weeks ago and was with Qantas. I’ve experienced similar with BA and SAA, all of them post 11/9.

There was no such villification of this particular issue.

This leads me to the conclusion that some members think it is more dangerous to have a cigarette inflight than it is to give people metal knives and forks.

This is not correct. It is not logical, it is not consistent and is an overreaction based on thinking whatever management tells you to think!

RE: I Give Up !!!

I frequently fly Boeing twins over sizeable expanses of water and few things scare me more than the prospect of an onboard fire. While it may not have started from a cigarette, read the report on the Saudia TriStar if you don’t believe me. By the way, my wife is ex-Saudia cabin crew and lost a friend on that flight.

RE: I Give Up !!!

I’ve been on flights where “apparently” ppl have been smoking – even on a 2hr leg of the flight – what do u do if a fire breakes out in mid-air?? – pull over to the side of airway bravo 1, ask every1 to get out whilst the firemen help u?? – especially on a 180min ETOPS situation?? – i know accidents do happen, but for the sake of something like this which is avoidable is it not common sense to try and Curb the problem?? – i know it wasnt caused by a smoker but look at the devistation a fire such as the Channel Tunnel fire when a train caught alight an was unaccessable for 15 MINS!!! – Hows about desending from 37,000ft??? hmmm – surely common sense prevails!

RE: I Give Up !!!

I agree totally with Softlad and Tweddle took the words right out of my mouth.

Regards

Ben

RE: I Give Up !!!

Some airlines do allow smoking at the back of the aircraft like Air Somalia on there TU 154, but its very risky.

RE: I Give Up !!!

Let’s try and calm down here, we are jumping on one another, we all have our opinions on this subject which is fair. I tend to agree with softlad with this, i am not a smoker but i can see both sides of the story here. I have travelled with smokers on long haul flight’s and if you are addicted to tobacco, as some people are it can be hell not to smoke for 8 hours. On the other side of this when these people get there tickets, then boarding passes I do believe it usally states on them NO SMOKING. It is a danger on board to smoke, when people have crafty cig’s in the toilet they may think they have put the fag out in the bin, but they might not have and there is alot of paper in an aircraft toilet, hence alot of danger. Would you really want to be on aircraft at 35,000 ft over the atlantic and there is a fire on board because some twit has decided that they MUST have a cig and put everyones lives in danger for the sake of there habit, a bit selfish don’t you think. I have been on a flight to HKG and a chinese passenger lit a fag smoked it and when he finished flicked the fag onto the floor, let me stress here he did not even put it out!! That is a danger to the aircraft and passengers, the reason we have never had an accident due to smoking is because we abide by these rules rigoursly (spelt wrong i know!) Then for a magazine to tell you how to have a crafty fag is disgusting and immature, in light of recent happening’s they should be ashamed of themselves and this should be highlighted with a letter to the editor, and if softlad works for an airline he should highlight it to his manager. I think I have said enough, as my fingers are aching but i thought I should have a say for a person who has worked within the industry>