I have made my mind up!!

Well you did recommend they hire her!!

ONS ? pah ! They need to go shopping with Mrs. G.

“Falling food prices meant the annual rate of UK inflation stood in uncharted territory of 0% in February, boosting family budgets.

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said its headline CPI measure of inflation eased from 0.3% in January to 0% in February year-on-year.

The figure sets a new record low for CPI since comparable records began in 1989 though the ONS added that inflation may have been lower in 1960 at -0.6%, based on unofficial estimates.

The ONS said consumer prices, measured under prices for a core basket of goods, were unchanged from a year earlier as lower food and computer goods prices outweighed upward pressures.

Food and non-alcoholic beverage prices saw a record year-on-year drop of 3.3% amid the supermarket price war.”

Geoff. The Guardian reporting the TUC is bound to cast a particular slant on the figures, but that many are now in other than the 5/365 day employment model is the way of the world and not necessarily, for all of them, anything other than a good thing. Mrs Moggy is a case in point.

Why is it easier to employ two part time rather than one full time.? I have been an employer and that makes no sense at all to me

Finally [Moderator note] will you please stop hitting the ‘Quote’ button every time you want to reply. We are all modestly intelligent here and can follow the gist of an argument without having to read the original post twice. Just hit ‘Reply’ and say what you want to say.

Moggy

I do a fair bit of the weekly shop, and try to stick to a reasonable budget, but that rarely works. Usually due to the presence of one, two or three small girls uttering the time honoured phrase ‘can I have?’.

I am sorry to have to disabuse you, John, but the lion’s share of the shopping is left to me, due to Mrs CH’s increasing immobility.

I’m sure that my wife within whose gift the responsibility for shopping lies, is related to Moses. She has a sure and tested instinct honed over many many years of sniffing for a bargain.

I can unhappily, no longer shop with her because I cannot any more cope with or, distinguish between a normal persons – such as myself – scrutiny of the supermarket shelves taking perhaps three seconds to make a choice and the catatonic trance into which she effortlessly – or, so it seems, slides when confronted with a colourful array of strawberry jam each, offering different qualities.

At this moment, I want to lie on the floor and scream for the attention of kindly men in white coats. However that is now in the past and has been for some time. I’m told to sit in the car and read the paper. I’m convinced that this is what all blokes do. In the presence of a serious serial shopper like Mrs G the maintenance of one’s mental balance is uppermost.

Charlie, I don’t believe that you shop. Moggy, your domestic circumstances specify that you do, I don’t care how experienced you are – you are a mere beginner. Mrs G specialises in fractions and decimals. She can tell you off the top of her head the price per gram or milliliter in a trice so, hence the best price among a range of prices.

If she tells me that such and such has gone up and by how much since she last bought it, the ONS should hire her because she will be spot on.

Hi All,
Moggy,
The rise of Zero Hr contracts does not mean company’s are working less Hr’s jus that the employees Hr’s they do work are not consistent in many careers now the way I see it, also while it may appear more people are at work how many of those are Full-time ? Easier to employ two part time than one Full-time, If those figures are correct then you don’t having said that I draw your attention to this article from the guardian http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/13/zero-hours-contracts-low-pay-figures-rise
This from the Office for National Statistics.
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/ashe/annual-survey-of-hours-and-earnings/2014-provisional-results/stb-ashe-statistical-bulletin-2014.html

Geoff.

Hi Bruce,
Now all that I can agree with matey you hit the nail on the proverbial head, especially your last quote. :eagerness: Incidentally you mentioning emergency payments, did you know that they have always remained ? It’s just that the policy of mentioning these payments to claimants have changed i.e. Unless the claimant actually utters the phrase “Emergency Payment” when contacting the DWP the Operator/Advisor ‘s are not allowed to suggest them, so unless you actually are aware of these payments you still get nothing even when you have nothing already.

Geoff.

Geoff (Spartacus!),

The Soup Kitchens and Sali Army is an angle I hadn’t considered. The rise and rise of the food bank is often shown as a Bad Thing – but they must have replaced something. There used to be hardship payments too, but I wonder if these were reduced to ensure that people were eating, and not just using them for booze and fags.

Its easy to knock a particular party, but zero hour contracts date, I understand from 2005, and Food banks are also a product of the last Labour administration.

It doesn’t matter who you vote for, the government will always win..

Bruce

Hi All,
Bruce,
Like you I have taken on board certain mistakes from what I have watched and read in particular the amount of oil produced obviously the over production is wrong.
As far as the food banks go I think a lot more was done in the way of charity outlets in the past i.e. Soup kitchens,Salvation Army etc.etc. I suppose it’s with the advent of the increasing population,high food prices and unemployment combining to having more of these food banks open up that along with they are a good tool for those who want to be in pour bringing them into focus while using them in campaigning as Moggy suggested.
As for everything else well We came,We read,We wrote, We discussed. I am SPARTACUS 😀

Geoff.

you have to admit the rise of the Zero Hr contract has increased drastically compared to those employers who offer Full-time Permanent contracts.

No Geoff, I don’t.

If you rely on facts rather than anecdote you will find that the average hours worked per month across the labour force is rising steadily, not falling. So even if there had been a rise in zero hours contracts, it is pretty evident that people are by and large getting substantial hours offered

Source: Department for Business Industry & Skills 2014

Moggy

Hi All,
Moggy,
Sorry matey but I haven’t I have been listening to my own chancellor the wife 😀 Sue does all the bill paying and juggling what we have coming in to what we have going out, who else is better to judge ? and I can tell you this Sue will only buy joints when they are at rock bottom when a particular meat is not selling well and that’s why the meat is offered at a discount. What I will say is we are slightly better off as we have no mortgage having paid this off, if it was not then we would indeed be with the worse offs. Myself and the wife have worked our entire life in my case from school having to call on the social a couple of times throughout my career when needed.
Anyway the crux of it is I am constantly informed when I comment about such and such is only that price, that it may have been a while back but the prices have shot up and keep going up, that along with what I see on the Tv media not just mainstream, along with the media papers I get a general picture and what I see is what I have put.
While I can’t 100% definitely say most people are on Zero Hr contracts like above I get a general picture and I see that more and more company’s are taking on agency staff,Offering zero Hr contracts,Paying minimum wage and thus that is why I put my opinions as a reply, from my own point of view I have my daughter and her friends who also work in different careers all saying the same thing, I may add that I over hear these discussions/comments and I am not part of the narrative in any way, you have to admit the rise of the Zero Hr contract has increased drastically compared to those employers who offer Full-time Permanent contracts.
It’s easier for a company to employ agency workers as they can farm out the contracts and finish them when they want without any of the overheads, you have people sitting by the phone waiting for that yes we want in A/B/C for X amount of Hr’s, I know this only to well from personal experience in the eighties.

Geoff.

If you are right and she is wrong, I can start reducing the housekeeping and fly a bit more. So, you can see that this is very important. I’m relying on you to get the rest of my twelve hours in.

Happy to oblige.

Mrs Moggy has a high pressure job in the pharma industry, I am an idle writer and marketeer working freelance from home.

Therefore it is I who does all the grocery shopping (as well as the cooking, a task I enjoy) and I’m happy to confirm that my shopping experience over recent years pretty much parallels that graph. I do use Waitrose from time to time, but most of my purchases are from Sainsbury (I’m also a shareholder) and Aldi.

I’m happy to give your good lady shopping lessons, but they would be charged at my hourly rate.

Moggy

Considering the tenacity with which the large retailers have been slashing prices, at the expense of their margins, against each other to make sure they can proudly boast “the cheapest prices on the high street” I find Moggy’s graph fairly credible. We can safely exclude Waitrose from the basket test, but their percentage of the total is relatively small.

Geoff,

Many of your arguments are sound, but they are crippled by the obvious errors.

“Most” are not on zero hours contract or at minimum wage.

Food prices are decreasing not increasing.

I fear you have been listening too intently to labour party propoganda.

Moggy

[ATTACH=CONFIG]236187[/ATTACH]

I showed your food graph to Mrs.G. She laughed – politely or, was it hysterically ? At a moment when convenient, she has asked me to invite you to meet her for a ‘Tesco Tasting’ or, a ‘Waitrose Whining’ or, a ‘Sainsbury Strewth’ !

The purpose of which is to check the pricing of at least ten staple food items on two occasions a month apart. She insists that allowing for seasonal differences, the price drift is always upwards.

If you are right and she is wrong, I can start reducing the housekeeping and fly a bit more. So, you can see that this is very important. I’m relying on you to get the rest of my twelve hours in.

I am a great fan of A Girl Called Jack.

She is a blogger who fed herself and her child on tiny amounts. She is now quite a successful writer / journalist, but tends towards being highly political these days which gets in the way of her main message.

http://agirlcalledjack.com/

Moggy

I wonder too if food banks are a function of how people eat. There are plentiful supplies of cheap cuts of fresh meat as well as fish like herring and mackerel. And as long as you buy what’s in season, fresh vegetables too. Which is all you need to prepare and cook very wholesome, inexpensive meals.

While I think about it – one important thing to note about inflation. The fact that it is falling, and is low, doesn’t mean that prices are falling. It means they are going up less fast. With slow wage growth, the effect is still a squeeze on income.

Hi All,

Bruce,

I f they did they obviously got it wrong the F-35 is a farce the money that has been pumped into that would have been better spent developing the Harrier as there where plenty of scope to further that aircraft, the F-35 is an all singing all dancing with the bells and whistles that could be put on it when all you need is kit that works, just another aircraft that is to advanced for the job let alone any mission creep if any IMPO. You have an aircraft flying around particularly the VSTOL version with it’s extra weight from a second lift engine that has overrun by millions, has had it’s threat neutralised allegedly by newly developed radar that can apparently see it and if I am not mistaken it was beaten by un-stealthy aircraft in an exercise a couple of years ago (Please correct if wrong.)
Another example is the two aircraft carriers that the RN has now the aircraft that can be accommodated by these two carriers is 45 on each and how many are we equipping them with allegedly 12 max if the Dispatches programme is to be believed so where is the cost effectiveness with all that ?
It has been a complete white elephant from start to finish, it has been faced along with the continual cost over-run with technical difficulty’s, threatened with cancelation once or more, so faith in what was promised is waning as many of the country are having to be sweet talked into continuing, Canada as an example voted on whether to continue and they are a major NATO member so what does the future look like if this saga contuse ?

As has been said elsewhere, Harrier really was at the end of its useful development life. In an ideal world – ie, more money sloshing around, it would have continued until F35 (good or bad) came on stream. As stated above, we needed to have started developing an indigenous replacement 20+ years ago if we were to build our own, so that was never going to happen.

As for the Nimrod it was cancelled after having started the upgrades for service so well on the way and yes while it is an old platform what was being done to replace it nothing ? The Nimrod should have been untouched as we have had no Maritime surveillance aircraft that was so essential to the country as we be an island. We are instead left to be the poor relation in NATO with having to rely on requesting other NATO members to police our borders when we perceive a threat, In the papers today is a trawler fisherman that claims his nets had tangled with a submarine after being dragged along, guess what no NATO sub US or RN sub in that vicinity I’ll give you two guesses to who it was, the Russians parked their largest carrier in full view of the Scottish coast no so long ago this all because we have no maritime aircraft we can call on, the stupidity of cancelling the Nimrod upgrade is mind boggling especially when we do not have a replacement available or was even planned.

Nimrod is another case in point. Had the government of the day, (which was Conservative at the time it was proposed), been brave enough to order a new aeroplane, based, perhaps on something a bit more modern, then we wouldn’t have ended up with the Nimrod development farce. Using Comet fuselages was a non starter right from the beginning. I am amazed that it wasn’t cancelled years ago if I’m honest. Yes, we have a capability gap, but I would argue too that being in NATO, we are part of a wider whole, and gain from the capacity that it brings. Sure, it starts to become a problem if the isolationist policies of parties like UKIP come to the fore, but I doubt they will.

All parties that are elected into office will massage the figures to appear the better government and always will but to tell those who put them there that the country is doing well when it is obviously not and is dishonest to say the least, I repeat that it will be if you have enough dosh floating around or you own a company that is dong well but most are I would think are just about keeping their heads above water.

I don’t disagree with you to a point, but as CD mentions, it is relative. The government concentrates on big policy decisions, that they expect will filter down to the smaller companies, and it does, but it takes time. A government cannot, (or should not) micro manage. I am keeping my own head above water, and I can see some improvement in the past six months or so, but it is slow.

Like I have already said massaged figures they do not include those who I mentioned in my original post if you add them in then the figures increase, as an example you can include those on training courses in both sets of figures while you in training you are neither employed or unemployed so you take them out of one lot of figures add them to another thus the employed figure go up and the unemployed figures go down and to be honest which figure would you choose to put them in ?

It was ever thus, and has been for some considerable time. If you accept that this has always happened (last 20 years or so), then it has always been the case that the figures are massaged, and that they have always been unrealistic. Thus you are comparing like with like. I don’t think the method of calculating the unemployed via claimant count has changed much if at all in the past five years.

While there may be some truth in allowing room for growth how can it when most are on Zero Hr contract/Minimum wages it’s because those who would undoubtedly like to buy cannot and that is why Mortgages are over longer terms not just so people can afford them, not only that those who lend obviously end up with more money because the money paid back is mostly off the interest and not from the cost of the house. How can the individual not be relevant surely what you earn has a direct effect of what you can afford and as I mentioned low pay means you cannot afford much anyway despite the allegation the banks are trying to help, they are all in a win,win situation as if the Mortgage lender defaults then they just kick those lenders out and still obtain the property while the lender has no recourse about what has occurred, this despite the government spouting on about making the lenders accountable for pulling out all the stops to help the Mortgage payer and ease the problem.When dealing with Mortgage defaults I have not heard of many that will be favourable to the lender, most lenders want the loan repaid quickly.

2.3% of the working population are on zero hours contracts. As I said elsewhere, I don’t agree with them, although there may be a place for them in certain circumstances. The banks are no longer permitted to lend on the basis that they were, as they themselves were lending more than they could afford to lose. All banks have been forced to strengthen their reserves, so that if there is another crash in the future, they can absorb it, rather than having to be bailed out by the government. Mortgages were cheap owing to bad regulation, and poor practice.

The Saudis have been over producing since the sanctions on Russia was imposed this as I said is in the part of those sanctions forcing the price down thus crippling Russia’s output price nothing more so I do not agree with no country would do that. Inflation is not low again I say if you have spare income after all your bills and a lot of it then yes I agree you may have a point for most that is not the reality, most are finding it hard to afford to live the liveable wage is a lot higher than what the minimum wage is, I agree hat the interest rate to some degree affects inflation but unless you are at that level you will not notice to much. As for food banks are you seriously suggesting that they are used just because they are there ?

Supply of oil has changed little. The Saudis are not producing more in order to bring the price down, they are producing about the same amount as they always were. Market forces determine the price. For most oil producing countries, the collapse in the price has hugely affected their balance of payments, so they have clearly had no input in the setting of the price. Inflation really is low, and deflation is possible, and even likely in the next 12-18 months. As mentioned, food prices are falling – although they had reached historically high figures.

while you may not want to be flippant you are misguided by that thought, the food banks are there because the price of food has risen simple as that. You are aware that even working people use food banks ? You just cannot stroll up to one and be handed a food parcel you have to apply through the DWP only when you have gone through that vetting process do you eventually receive a token to obtain the food parcels, even then I think I am correct in saying you can use them three times (Please correct if wrong.) These food banks are there and growing in number because of the state this country is in people who just want o live a normal life are using them as a direct link to inflation on food, they are having there rights slowly eroded away over the years despite those rights being fought for by others so many years ago.

I was corrected further down the thread, and am happy to withdraw my remarks. However, no-one has answered my other question – what did we do in previous times of food poverty when there were no food banks? I believe that food banks are there to ensure that support is properly targeted towards ensuring that the people who need it, get food, as opposed to money that may not be as wisely spent.

All the above and post are just my opinions and like everybody else we all have them and I will just have to disagree with some and agree with others. :eagerness:

Geoff.

Absolutely, it is important that we debate these issues. My own views are often changed by other people who have their own set of beliefs, and can robustly debate them!

Bruce