I usually stick to Spitfires but…

Hurricane L1959 ex 73 Squadron TP-C.

I have copies of photos of this Aircraft after its Forced Landing in Luxembourg by its Pilot Dickie Martin on the 8th of November 1939.

At the time it was fitted with a Watts Propeller, i do not know whether this Aircraft was ever put on show, however i do know that the Propeller was removed to stop anyone flying the Aircraft.

The Aircraft was later destroyed, however the Watts Propeller was recently found in the loft a Police Station.

Hope this is of interest.

Iain

Do you know if and where there is a published photo of the Rechlin tested machine you mentioned showing it in 1+4 codes?

Foray

Sorry I personally have not seen a photo of this plane with the 1+4 codes but I have multiple references to it. Paul

antoni

My ‘no aerials’ comment referred to the photo that started this thread and the photos of the Watts prop Hurricane posted by Gretza in the earlier forum thread quoted at item 36.

The Hurricanes in both photographs have aerials. The top one is said to be late 1940. Autumn perhaps unless it down south. As Sky spinners and fuselage bands were introduced at the end of Nov 1940 the Hurricanes must have been captured before the end of 1940. That, of course, does not mean that the photographs were not taken much later.

Hi
I think the top photo shows Hurricane Mark I – DF+SC 1941-42 Zerbst-Anhalt, info from LEMB board.

But could it be this old two blade hurricane mentioned in an old flypast thread

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=76905

cheers
Jerry

Jerry,

Certainly looks a strong candidate – both having no aerial and tip of spinner missing.

Hi
I think the top photo shows Hurricane Mark I – DF+SC 1941-42 Zerbst-Anhalt, info from LEMB board.

But could it be this old two blade hurricane mentioned in an old flypast thread

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=76905

cheers
Jerry

Not the same Hurricane unless they changed the propeller. There may have been a light coloured band around the nose. Maybe the same location? The buildings in the background look like they have similar windows and roof tiles.

This Hurricane in Leipzig also appears to have a band around the nose. Cannot make out the serial number properly. Perhaps N2853 or N2653. I bet someone will know what it is.

Possibly a reference to the propeller. Zwie blatt – two leaves. Zweiblatt is a common orchid that derives its name from the genus having only two leaves close to the ground. The English name twayblade obviously has a Germanic root.

I was going to say the same without the orchid reference. Zweiblatt roughly translates as two-blader.

99.99% sure its the former Rechlin tested Hawker Hurricane Mk1 which was coded as 1+4 (but the original Serial ID remains a mystery) . The other pictures that Jerry posted show a faint 1 and 4 each side of the repainted roundal

Paul,
Attached, should be, a slightly enhanced version of the fuselage of one of the photos posted by brewerjerry. The 1 to left of the roundel is clear to see and the 4, to the right, is just about visible. [Rudder not attached to fin on this shot] Do you know if and where there is a published photo of the Rechlin tested machine you mentioned showing it in 1+4 codes?

Wow! It never ceases to amaze me, the breadth of knowledge here.

That sounds a really sensible suggestion

Moggy

Filenames only give two clues – and they are the easiest to amend to suit. ‘Beaute’ translates to ‘Trophy’ and ‘Zweiblatt’ is an orchid (!). Make of that what you will.

Possibly a reference to the propeller. Zwie blatt – two leaves. Zweiblatt is a common orchid that derives its name from the genus having only two leaves close to the ground. The English name twayblade obviously has a Germanic root.

I think the “uPVC” windows is just an effect of them being at the back of a photo that isn’t really in focus anyway – so any detail in them has been lost.

At risk of falling into irony detector failure myself, I think they’re fine – if not genuine WW2 then fairly close. The clothes in the middle image look 1930s/1940s to me, possibly European rather than British (though a pair of lederhosen would be nice to confirm that). At least two of the items on LEMB are heavily compressed scans with the borders cropped off, so it’s hard to draw conclusions from them but differences in the sepia toning etc could be down to all manner of things – I’ve scanned historic photo albums and the differences between two prints on the same page can be enormous.

So… who come up with a conclusive ID first, I wonder?

Adrian

Hi
I had some spare time so looked on LEMB
and photos there seems to be the same hurricane ?
photo source e bay ?
cheers
Jerry

The first photo has a board with a description in front to the Hurricane. A higher res shot may give some idea…

And the last ones looks like it has had it’s codes painted over. Why would they paint over the codes?

Regards

Simon

Edit: Paul beat me to it with the overpainted codes…

99.99% sure its the former Rechlin tested Hawker Hurricane Mk1 which was coded as 1+4 (but the original Serial ID remains a mystery) . The other pictures that Jerry posted show a faint 1 and 4 each side of the repainted roundal

And L1959 was displayed, I believe. The Watts two-blader is still extant from L1959.

However, the light front cowling ring is interesting. Some 1 Squadron Hurricanes had this feature; I think flight/section colours.

The absence of squadron markings, or even indivdual code letter, is notable though.

Of course, any number of Hurricanes were left behind in France May/June 1940.

Think least complicated answer

Come on guys – apply Occam’s Razor. This is most likely a captured aircraft on display. And most likely not repainted (twice). It is possible someone has worked on some original pics in terms of presentation/sepia etc. But to create the whole scene? D

No takers for L1959, then?

ooops! Irony detector failure 😮

Moggy,

I was joking. 🙂

Just as in the UK in WWII there were exhibits of captured Axis aircraft for War bonds and Spitfire funds, moral boosting etc this is surely the same situation from the ‘other side’.

German octane rating triangle and RAF roundels positioned where German markings would be applied, further inboard, say to me former captured evaluation aircraft. Watts two blade suggests a former ‘Battle of France’ machine.

Mark

Taking all five together they don’t seem to be a set, the ageing applied / that has happened to each is widely at variance. Different b/w or sepia appearance, deckle-edging etc etc

Filenames only give two clues – and they are the easiest to amend to suit. ‘Beaute’ translates to ‘Trophy’ and ‘Zweiblatt’ is an orchid (!). Make of that what you will

My gut feeling is that what we aren’t seeing here is an original wartime scene. Looking at the people there seem to be too many and too varied to be present day re-enactors. It looks like late 1950s, very early 1960s somewhere in Europe. Except for the possible uPVC, very much a product of the 1980s and later

Beyond that I can’t see much in the way of clues.

Anyyone have any thoughts on what appears to be two tall masts in the last of the images?

Moggy